Why The Media Ignores Jeremy Hammond While Praising Edward Snowden

Jeremy Hammond's hack of Stratfor, a corporate intelligence agency, created global solidarity by revealing how the 1% targets activists worldwide.
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    Jeremy Hammond, hackticist and polctical prinosner, was behind the now famous Starfor email hacks.Jeremy Hammond, hacktivist and political prisoner, was behind the now famous Stratfor email hacks.

    The mainstream media has devoted hundreds of articles to NSA whistleblower Edward Snowden, the subject of the Oscar-winning documentary “Citizenfour,” but it’s not devoted the same level of attention to many other whistleblowers and political prisoners, like Jeremy Hammond, no matter how sensational the facts they revealed.

    In November 2013, a federal court sentenced Hammond to 10 years in prison for his part in the hack of Strategic Forecasting, an Austin, Texas-based corporate intelligence agency, also known as Stratfor. Working on behalf of Lulzsec, an infamous subgroup of Anonymous, Hammond leaked 5 million private emails taken from Stratfor to the whistleblowing website WikiLeaks, a release that came to be known as the Global Intelligence Files, or GI Files.

    The emails revealed that Stratfor gathers intelligence on behalf of private corporations while also sharing sensitive information with local and federal law enforcement. For example, the company spied on The Yes Men for Dow Chemical, after the activists publicly humiliated Dow on behalf of survivors of the 1984 Bhopal, India, disaster that killed thousands. At the same time, Stratfor collaborated with the Texas State Troopers to infiltrate Occupy Austin during the first months after the group’s formation in October 2011.


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    A recent Tweet by @YourAnonNews, one of the largest Twitter accounts related to the Anonymous movement, explicitly compares Hammond to Snowden:

    To understand the importance of Hammond’s hack, and to examine the comparison between the two whistleblower figures, MintPress News spoke with two people who have communicated with Hammond in prison and also benefited from his work.

    Azzurra Crispino is an activist with Prison Abolition and Prisoner Support (PAPS). She’s spent years writing to Hammond, while the group brings attention to Hammond’s case through letter writing campaigns and direct action. She was a member of Occupy Austin when the hack revealed Stratfor’s spying.

    Douglas Lucas is a freelance writer and journalist from Fort Worth, Texas. Lucas received early access to the GI Files through a partnership with WikiLeaks. Both of them joined MintPress on Wednesday at an Austin coffee shop.

    “The first and foremost difference is that Snowden is not in prison and Jeremy is,” said Crispino.

    While Snowden can communicate with activists, journalists and computer engineers by video conferencing from Russia, Hammond is limited to communicating through letters which can be censored or blocked by prison officials. The difference goes deeper, however, as Crispino explained, because Hammond is an unapologetic supporter of prison abolition.

    “Snowden is giving us a message of reform,” she said. “We can just tweak this one thing and everything will go back to being right as rain regarding corporate and government surveillance. Whereas Jeremy is saying this is egregious and it all has to go from start to finish.”

    She added that Hammond, like his imprisoned brother Jason, has a history of participating in violent actions against Neo-Nazis in Chicago.

    Lucas stressed that the GI Files exposed a portion of the American surveillance state that’s normally both invisible and entirely immune to accountability. When the media quotes Stratfor employees, such as Fred Burton, vice president for Intelligence, reporters rarely question the accuracy of their words.

    Lucas gave examples of key details often revealed by the emails: “To whom did Stratfor sell their intelligence? What else was Fred Burton doing on the day he talked to the media?”

    The leak allows him to weigh Stratfor and government claims against facts learned in hindsight.

    In comparing Snowden to Hammond, Lucas pointed out that the mainstream media may be more reluctant to report on a corporation like Stratfor when Stratfor’s clients might be advertising sponsors:

    “Journalists play a large role in controlling what information the public receives. It is safer, for business and editorial approval, to write about a whistleblower who leaked information from the federal government, the traditional opponent of influential investigative journalists, than about a whistleblower who hacked out information about local cops collaborating with corporate spies.”

    Hammond’s 2011 Stratfor leak came at a time when social media was being used in unprecedented ways worldwide to support activist movements like Occupy Wall Street and the Arab Spring, and at the height of Anonymous’ power as a collective. Just as Snowden made the world aware of mass surveillance by the United States, Crispino explained how the emails enhanced the feeling of global solidarity prevalent at the time of the GI Files release.

    “You might say, what do I have in common with the people of Bhopal who are fighting for justice and reparations?” she asked rhetorically. “Initially, it might seem like I have nothing in common with them.”

    She continued: “I think that one of the strongest things that’s come out of the Stratfor revelations is it gave activists the ability to stand in solidarity with other activists across the world and see those connections in a way that I think is really important for The Struggle.”

    And even though imprisoned, she added, Hammond has urged his supporters to show solidarity for other political prisoners like Alvaro Luna.

    Crispino highlighted a final difference between Snowden and Hammond: While Snowden infiltrated the surveillance state, Hammond acted openly and brazenly under the mask of Anonymous.

    “Jeremy didn’t just infiltrate Stratfor quietly. He went in loudly then proceeded to smash Stratfor to pieces,” she concluded. “It took six months for them to get their servers back up!”

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      • Gregory Alan of Johnson

        Snowden went through Assange, and Hammond didn’t. That’s why “we” haven’t heard of Hammond.

      • Ubernerdlucas

        “Hammond acted openly and brazenly under the mask of Anonymous.” I’m not sure you understand what some of those words mean….

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      • budhappy

        how about hackers e-mail me what they find. I did not hack and cannot be charged as one. Maybe charged for passing the info around, but not for hacking.

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      • 0040

        Giving the Nobel Peace Prize to Obomber has proven to be a far greater act of hypocrisy than giving one to his fellow war criminal Kissinger. Nixon while engaging in domestic spying was loathe to use the info , possibly causing the spy agencies to turn on him, not so with Obomber.

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      • CuttleFish

        Snowden (an “ex” CIA analyst remember) is part of a CIA operation to embarrass and defund the NSA and its contractors, which is why he gets spotlight through “managed opposition” outlets like The Intercept. His exposures are high-level and don’t expose any details about who was targeted, or for what reasons, they serve to amplify paranoia and distrust without providing any actual targets for accountability, or any knowledge of what persons or activities are being targeted.

        Hammond’s exposure of Strator was unexpected, and actually exposed *targets* of government and corporate disruption. The Team Themis revelations, and the revelations that the Chamber of Commerce and Bank of America were using Stratfor to disrupt banking-reform activists actually exposed government / corporate collusion and suppression at work. This is why Hammond’s story was silenced.

        • 0040

          Hammond whistle blowing was more dangerous the current regime domestically ergo the Draconian punishment. Most of Snowden’s stuff is still being withheld under threat of rendering/imprisonment for those in possession of the material. I’m sure Greenwald etal are acutely aware of this. They recently grabbed up his partner at an airport in England , later releasing him, just to make their point.

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      • Andrea Dalma Krizsak

        Firstly JH is in prison while Snowden is not. When JH comes out of prison he will be a free man, (time spent), while Snowden may still be chased, because the case is not that clear cut.

        JH has published in The Guardian and elsewhere. I personally prefer the fact he is not publishing an article every 3 minutes.

        At the same time, since Snowden is more visible, we can at least all see where the story is at. Milestones and all that. Snowden is now totally on the right track, which is helping all the political h/activists/s who are going against the oligopolystic/big brother system this planet has morphed into.

        So no need to compete, its always better to align and co-operate.

        • dubinsky

          Hammond of course is guilty as can be and there’s no ethical defense for his crimes.

          • Michael J. Motta

            That’s a pretty broad statement. There’s a vast difference between being convicted of a crime and having no ethical defense for it, as vast as the difference between law and ethics.

            • dubinsky

              try to make an ethical defense of robbing people who subscribed to stratfor.

              • JCC0

                Try to make an ethical defense of Stratfor.

                • dubinsky

                  twas the subscribers who were robbed.

                  you don’t like the bank, so you beat up the cousin of the bank’s janitor?

          • John Kelly

            A known Fascist troll barks in the woods.

            • dubinsky

              Hammond isn’t known as a fascist troll, just a lame jerk

              • John Kelly

                However… you, Dubinsky, are a known Fascist troll. Hammond, on the other hand, is a hero to those who believe in exposing Fascists and their anti-democracy goals, which include lies, election stealing, illegal wars, war crimes, torture, the subversion of democracy, and all manner of other disgusting acts. Revealing those acts is heroic. Dim-witted authoritarians sniffing the jocks of big-time Fascists is something else altogether. Glad I could clear that up for you.

                • dubinsky

                  you’re merely a twerp and idiot.

                  there’s nothing fascist in my political philosophy.

                  go buy a clue.

                  • John Kelly

                    Did I hear the wind blowing?

                    • RickD

                      No, but you certainly create a wind of your own. I disagree with dubinsky on more than one or two political positions this one certainly. But he always posts with clarity and with intelligence and, when insulted by shallow people who cannot debate the points or positions and must, perforce, result to childish insult and invective he wins the argument.

                      Is that what you desire?

                      • John Kelly

                        I suppose this was “intelligent”:

                        “Hammond of course is guilty as can be and there’s no ethical defense for his crimes.”

                        Intelligent? Do you even know who Hammond is or what he has revealed about our shadow Fascist state? He is being punished more harshly than murderers and rapists and this tool piles on with his preposterous remarks. Cowardly smears require a retort and that’s what I gave him.

                        As for childish insult: ”

                        you’re merely a twerp and idiot.

                        there’s nothing fascist in my political philosophy.

                        go buy a clue.”

                        I guess it depends on your whimsical interpretation of what constitutes a childish insult.

                        Anything else? Thanks for your weak defense of the stupid remarks made by this other poster. He needed help. Unfortunately, you ain’t it.

                        As for not debating points, I’ll let others judge who is talking about issues and who is lamely smearing those who reveal Fascism in all its glory.

                        • RickD

                          Using the word intelligent in your perpetually childish stupidities is kind of funny, excepting that the serious nature of that being discussed makes your unintentional humor secondary to your disruptive, uninformative and useless presence here.

                        • John Kelly

                          I’m sorry you are so upset. Perhaps you could go sit at the kiddy table for a while… you know, let the grownups who have slightly thicker skins have a conversation. I’ll try to talk around your delicate sensibilities in the future.

                        • RickD

                          I doubt anyone is reading your efforts after the repeated demonstrations of your unfitness to interact with adults.

                        • John Kelly

                          Probably not since you hauled this thread out after 10 days! That’s fine. I was responding to your comment, and don’t require validation from others. Have a good day.

                        • RickD

                          For those not this mouth breathing middle school disruptive clown here is a link to my response to dubinsky on another thread:

                          https://disqus.com/home/discussion/truthdig/why_we_need_to_praise_whistleblower_jeremy_hammond_too_larrys_list_truthdig/#comment-2046097039

                        • AS1124

                          you just insulted people for attacking Dubinsky and now you are insulting John. Maybe you’re dubinskys team tagging friend.

                        • RickD

                          and maybe you have nothing to say and cannot help but saying it. The poster in question has a history of virulence, insult and obnoxious disruptive commenting. You , in turn, ignore the history between dubinsky and myself , one of expounding upon our political differences but with maturity and rationality.

                          Try it sometimes , it might even become a habit.

                        • John Kelly

                          “The poster in question has a history of virulence, insult and obnoxious disruptive commenting.”

                          I have a history of confronting your closely held belief that you have the moral high ground over people of conscience who refuse to participate in the dog and pony show that you believe so strongly in as well as those who do participate but not in a way you approve of.

                          I’m sorry you simply can’t handle the fact that I will not vote for a war criminal or those who support war criminals. You can’t handle the fact that your immoral argument was shredded, and you can’t handle the fact that your so-called voter-pragmatism is an excuse for supporting bought and paid for politicians who have all the decency and integrity one might expect from the lesser of two evils. Vote-shamers like you are hypocrites. Your lame defense of that authoritarian ankle biting Fascist (Dubinsky) was cute as well.

                          You hypocrites can dish it but, (shocking!) someone disagrees with your transparently trite and superficial argument and your extremely thin skins are revealed. Perhaps a bit of smelling salts would help? I see the vapors are going around. Please don’t go fainting from all these words…

                        • RickD

                          You should not be so proud of your own history here,John boy. Nor is your use of such words as “immoral argument” or your obvious ego filled rant about “destroying an argument”

                          Speaking of extremely thin skinned, what the flock did you just post but a thin skinned and childish rant? Hypocrisy? Perhaps. Stupidity and self centered egoism? Absolutely.

                        • John Kelly

                          Well… you sure won that argument. That was awesome. I often agree with things you write, but you have a serious weakness when challenged from the left. You are indeed thin-skinned. Anyone reading your posts here on this thread as well as Dubinsky’s will see mulitiple insults spewed while sanctimoniously decrying what you perceive as childish insults… quit a lame and hypocritical tactic.

                        • dubinsky

                          Kelly, old pal……. Hammond pleaded guilty because there was no defense for the crimes.

                          if you wish to try to mount a defense for violating the privacy of stratfor’s subscribers…….. why don’t you give it a try……

                          whining about the length of his sentence isn’t a defense of anything….. it’s just you jerking yourself.

                          please, present an argument for why it isn’t a crime or isn’t unethical to help to rob stratfor’s subscribers of your money and their privacy….

                          …… or stick to jerking yourself and whining.

                      • AS1124

                        rick d: Dubinsky is a State plant. All one has to do is read his /her posts for years to catch on. Catch on why don’t you ?

                        • dubinsky

                          I’m from New York…..we have a state tree (sugar maple) and a state bush (lilac bush) but not a state plant

                        • RickD

                          Why do you post such self incriminating and virtually meaningless and infantile nonsense? Could it be that you have nothing else to offer?

                    • dubinsky

                      through the holes in your head

                      • John Kelly

                        Trolling through past threads for things to be insulted by? 17 days later??? You win.

              • AS1124

                nope Dubinsky: We are all talking about you you State TROLL

          • AS1124

            ok, everyone, Dubinsky is a troll. I ‘ve watched this infiltrator for years. ignore them completely.

        • Andrea Dalma Krizsak

          Also, I have had a person/paper interested in publishing articles written by Jeremy, and I have spoken to the people manning Jeremy’s FB account. They have I think passed on the message and my details, and not much has happened since. Its easy to get published nowadays so this is not a big deal.

          At the same time, since JH has no access to the internet and can only email, any articles need to be clear and written in a way that lasts for a while, since he can not blog and respond every 3 seconds, like we can.

          So his vision about technology and how it will shape the future, how tech can serve the people, how tech can enable and aid social justice, what are the mechanisms in place that can elevate the poor and the people living at a subsistence level, how global economics (multi laterals) speculate against local interest and what tech can do to enable locals to live where they are.

          How tech as a mechanism can realign the economy so that its fair.

          Snowden is covering these things as well but Jeremy would probably be more concise. Since JH is a political prisoner, the outlook for him and his future is good, and it is my opinion that he can get published any time he wants.

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      • Unrepentant Atheist

        There is a difference when you do something to serve society, and when you do something “for the lulz”. The good done by Hammond was incidental, not by motive.

      • Boronda McCorkle

        The author of this article seems to have a problem understanding basic terminology. The word you’re looking for isn’t “whistleblower.” The word you’re looking for is “criminal.”

        If you’d find it helpful, I can link you to a course catalog listing remedial English courses at your local community college. Failing that, since you’re probably really busy being dead wrong about things, I’d be happy to help direct you to one or more online dictionaries that you’d be able to browse at your leisure. Just let me know. Have a great week!

        • Conrad

          The author of this reply seems to have a problem understanding our current state of affairs. If you’d find it helpful, I can link you to a course catalog listing standard political science courses at your local community college. Failing that, since you’re obviously busy being blissfully ignorant of current events, I’d be happy to help direct you to one or more online news sites that you’d be able to browse at your leisure. Have a great week!

          • Kevan Hughes

            LOL burn! nice one Conrad.

            • Unrepentant Atheist

              The difference was motive. He wasn’t doing it to serve society. Its like shooting a gun in the air doing silly stupid things, and the bullet dropping down and hitting one of the Boston Marathon bombers BEFORE they set the explosives. Sure it would have done a good thing, but did they really intend to do that? I support Snowden, but I find it harder to stand behind this guy.

          • Boronda McCorkle

            Oh weird, I didn’t know disagreeing with foreign policy or political affairs excepted people from federal and state laws. Neat. Sorry about that, totally wasn’t aware. Guess hacking Stratfor wasn’t criminal after all.

            He wasn’t prosecuted, right? I mean, since the law didn’t apply to him and stuff?

        • FedUp

          You might be too stupid for the internet, i know tgat sounds crazy but just put the keyboard down before tou hurt yourself “boranda”

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      • Robert Munro

        Jeremy Hammond exposed the crimes of a private corporation, an accomplice of the larger criminals in the US Government. Edward Snowden exposed the government crimes.
        Their heroism is a matter of scale. While Hammond did manage to wreck Stratfor’s systems, Stratfor is nothing but a secondary criminal organization – actually tertiary, when one considers the Banking Cartel that controls the US government.
        Because of the passivity of the American people, neither Snowden’s or Hammond’s work and sacrifices produced the results that should have occurred……….the beginning of a radical regime change for the United States, in which the Americn People repossess OUR country from the sociopathic predators who have stolen our country and our freedom.

        • Arcanek

          It’s not our country, and it never was. Changing government only changes who holds the gun to your head. The notion of a country is just part of the divide and conquer strategy.

          • Robert Munro

            Whether the US was ever our country in practice is not important. We have the DEED to this place and it’s far, far past time we took possession.
            Your last sentence isn’t even something I will bother to address.

            • Arcanek

              Because it’s way over your head. there is no deed for anywhere on the planet. That’s all a hoax.

              • Robert Munro

                Whatever you need to believe. Burn your birth certificate and passport, in that case. You belong nowhere.

                • Arcanek

                  You must think god is a real estate agent. You know where you belong.

                  • Robert Munro

                    Hardly! The documents establishing the state of United States of America clearly state that this country belongs to the American People, not the Bush or Walton or Koch, or even the Rothschild families – those are not mentioned.

                    It’s exactly as the Magna Carta and subsequent documents establish the people of England, Scotland and Wales as having certain rights. That their rights were usurped by the the Rothschild Cartel 250 years ago and ours were usurped by the Rothschilds 102 years ago does NOT abridge those rights in ANY manner.

      • dubinsky

        Hammond truly merits ignoring as well as imprisonment.

        • Robert Munro

          TRUTH is the one thing that most terrifies the employers of creatures like “dubinsky”. Their reality is best summarized in this statement found in both the Jewish Torah and their Talmud……………

          “To communicate anything with a Goy about our relations would be equal to the killing of all Jews, for if the Goyim knew what we teach about them, they would kill us openly.”

          From the Torah and Talmud on the Jewish web site, “Jewish Virtual Library”.

          • dubinsky
            • Robert Munro
              • Another Thought Criminal
                • Robert Munro

                  Accurate video of Zionism’s work.

                  Israel should be eradicated.

                  • Another Thought Criminal

                    Israel was such a scam. They said give us our own country. They were; and then instead of all moving there they just use it as a home base of operations to control all the other countries.

                    • Robert Munro

                      Israel is nothing but an ego exercise for the Rothschild family and their bankster cartel. It is also a base for their political operations. They would have no more problem throwing away those millions of Jews than they had throwing away millions 75 years ago or the many thousands that have died in pogroms over the last 2000 years – after Gentile populations and rulers became enraged over the corruption and treachery of the Jewish leaders and money changers.

                  • Unrepentant Atheist

                    Damn. More reason why religion is evil. You can all point the fingers at each other, but regardless if you are Christian, Muslim, or Jew, you are all responsible.

                  • AS1124

                    im reporting you for anti semitism. You’re sick.

                    • dubinsky

                      at least you figured that one out.

                • Unrepentant Atheist

                  Damn. More reason why religion is evil. You can all point the fingers at each other, but regardless if you are Christian, Muslim, or Jew, you are all responsible.

                  Edit: Replied to the wrong post originally. Now it is right.

                  • Robert Munro

                    In and of itself, religion is not evil. However, when a criminal cult hides behind religion and/or ethnicity or a religion is used for aggression, then it becomes evil.

                    Both Christianity and Islam have been used for evil and Judaism is a mask for the worst criminal organization in history.

                    BTW, I don’t subscribe to any of the Abrahamic mythologies. I’m Deist.

                    • Unrepentant Atheist

                      Its not the people, but the teachings that are evil. Religion teaches people to hate. No matter how much someone says its about “love” even Christianity threatens people with eternal torture and is outright forward with its bigotry towards gays. Whether it is Israel/Gaza, the twin towers, or abortion clinics, they are violent when it comes to their precious religion.

                      • Robert Munro

                        True.

                      • Arcanek

                        Anything you believe, but don’t understand entirely is religion. We don’t know anything entirely, so everything is a belief on some level, and therefore, a form of religion. If you don’t believe in god, then why do you god must be male? There seems to be an underlying implicate order, as Bohm would refer to it, but the notion that it can personified seems unjustifiable to me. Deism is a religion. It doesn’t matter if it idiosyncratic. Every religion differs from person to person. You might want to read Thinking and Destiny by Harold Percival. There’s a free download available at http://www.thewordfoundation.org/

                        • Unrepentant Atheist

                          I will have to disagree with some of your definitions.

                          Religion: an organized system of beliefs, ceremonies, and rules used to worship a god or a group of gods.

                          It is this definition that I term “evil”. Religion requires some form of worship. It is organized and created by man. You seem to be generalizing religion into any belief. If so, use the term belief instead, you would be understood better.

                          Like many, I grew up in the indoctrination that was Catholic Sunday School. So yes, I still use the term “him” when referring to God. Last time I checked, so do Christians in general. I don’t run into too many Muslims and Jews on these sites though their god is the same as Christians without the baby Jesus and thus referred to as “him”. In this case, it isn’t a “proof of belief” it is a “for lack of a better term” situation. Better that using the term “it”, but I can if it makes you feel better.

                          The reason I labeled Deism as spirituality instead of religion is because as per the above definition. Deism, in my view, requires the structure and organization to be a religion. Religion is the foundation of the teachings, morality, methods of worship, dogma, etc. To me, spirituality is the personal belief, the wonder, the relationship, and the image of god that an individual has. Religion is the rules, spirituality is the experience. If Deism was a religion, it wouldn’t be Deism, it would be whatever religious structure you were using for worship.

                          This may not match with your definition. Many Christians (and others, never saw a deist take that stand though until now) like to generalize the term religion as much as they can to include Atheists, so Atheists are insulting themselves when they “don’t like religion”. The often use this as a shield. However, in order to have any conversation, the definitions have to be defined so people can understand each other and the points they are making.

                        • Arcanek

                          That’s just one definition. Look into the etymology. And check out the etymology of worship while you are at it.

                          I’ll choose what words I use, and the way I use them. I defined it for you. If you don’t like it, too bad.

                          No need to patronize me, I was just trying to point out your programming. Never mind.

                          The masons are deists. I haven’t found any source that agrees with you, but you have defined, so it doesn’t matter to me if that is what you want to believe and how you choose to use it.

                          The definitions have to be defined? You mean clearly stated? I’ll agree with that, but you have to me doing what you just did. I see no basis, therefore, for your objection.

                        • Unrepentant Atheist

                          Sound like a Christian thing to do. Fine. I think every single existing religion THAT WORSHIPS A GOD OR DEITY teaches evil concepts. In the end, that belief puts you in a slave/master relationship with a figment of ones imagination (or someone else imagination), and that in itself is a terrifying thought. Slavery, murder, treatment of women as objects, child sacrifice, devaluing of human life, genocide, and more can be found among the three Abrahamic religions (I cant speak for the religions I do not know). It really doesn’t matter if you are flying planes into buildings, shelling Gaza, or blowing up an abortion center… it is all promoted by religious belief.

                          “Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.”

                          Steven Weinberg

                        • Arcanek

                          What sounds like a christian thing to do? Refer to the etymology? Why all the straw man arguments? Are you assuming I’m a christian? You pretty much avoided the points I brought up entirely.

                        • Unrepentant Atheist

                          Redefining the definitions. If religion is no difference from belief, then use the word belief. It will save people a headache of arguments.

                          Whether you are Christian or not is irrelevant. I said it sounds like something a Christian would argue, because every time an Atheist attacks religion as a whole, they want to include us in the attack. Its a straw man argument which redefines the intent of the original statement. Anyone with an elementary grade school education could tell what I meant when I said that, but you decided to pull up obscure definitions to change the meaning.

                        • Arcanek

                          I meant religion, not belief in general. There is more than one definition of religion, and it fit my intent. I wasn’t redefining anything. If you’re so stuck in your view of religion and that doesn’t suit you. too bad. And I’ll comment any way I like. You don’t control the language, and you don’t control my choice of words.

                          As for the masons, try reading Albert Pikes Morals and Dogma of the Scottish rites of Freemasonry. He was considered by many to be the ‘pope’ of freemasonry during his day. He fled the country after the Lincoln assassination. After the trial, he returned to, along with Nathan Bedford Forrest, found the Ku Klux Klan. Nice moral code there.

                        • Unrepentant Atheist

                          Your right. I should have never questioned your definition. Only your ability to read my statement. Like most religion, you see reality for what you want it to be, not what it is.

                        • Arcanek

                          You can’t see past your own arrogant nose. You have no right accusing anyone else of not seeing reality when you resort to this fallacy when you can not defend either your statement or your beliefs. Religion has more than one definition, which you chose to ignore. Who can’t see reality? Get a grip.

                        • Unrepentant Atheist

                          And I disagree. But you claim it is fallacy, but the original argument was that Religion is evil. In my statement, it was pretty obvious that it was about those that worship a deity in a organized manner. You definition does not make sense in my statement, so bringing up a different definition, is a change of subject at best, and fallacy in reality.

                        • Arcanek

                          Your original argument was a fallacy of generalization. Not all those that worship a deity in an organized manner are evil. there are plenty that are not. I might not agree with their concept of a deity, but I know plenty that are not evil in any way. So, i take exception to your definition. It was not a change of subject, just a change of view. I stand by my rebuttal.

                        • Unrepentant Atheist

                          Strawman. I never said the people were evil, but instead the teachings of their religion. I believe I was pretty specific on that. Hence the importance of the definition of religion.

                          Many people rationalize their religion and essentially cut away the parts they don’t like or outright ignore them. I don’t mind them doing that, but it puts them at odds with others in their religion and is hypocritical.

                        • Arcanek

                          Not a strawman. You originally posted ‘More reason why religion is evil.’ you made an unqualified statement, and now you are redefining your position. And I never said you said the people were evil. That is a strawman. And not all the teachings of what you consider religion (worship of a deity?) are evil. Your view of religion is very limited and biased.

                        • Unrepentant Atheist

                          … and the very next post, I stated, “Its not the people, but the teachings that are evil.”

                          Clarifying my position based on your post.

                        • Arcanek

                          You made an unqualified statement, then changed it. So you redefined your position, but can’t handle it when someone else uses a different definition of a word because you only like one definition.

                        • Unrepentant Atheist

                          Yep. When I make a mistake or aren’t specific enough in what I say, I try to correct it. Amazing how that works.

                        • Arcanek

                          This pendantic, patronizing response is hardly a clarification or correction,and it is definitely not amazing. Nor is it working, which is why you are copping out and and calling it a circular conversation, in a feeble attempt to get the last word.. Typical eltist snobbery. You feel entitled to redefine your meaning, while refusing to accept any definition except for the one that fits your religion. My use is neither eccentric nor philosophical. There is more than one definition of the word in any dictionary.In fact, the first two results from a google search match my intent, and the next one lists it as the second definition. But you refuse to accept any definition that proves your stubborn ignorance, and you start in with the tap dancing around the issue, resorting to fallacious reasoning to support your delusion. I knew what you meant, and I disagreed, so you started changing your story. Wake up.

                        • Unrepentant Atheist

                          Once again straw man. I said should have understood what I meant. You still don’t get that. There was a discussion going on that had nothing to do with your definition of the word.

                        • Arcanek

                          Not a straw man. you apparently don’t know the meaning. And you gave yourself away, attempting to get the last word in by claiming you were ‘going to choose not to participate in this circular conversation that serves no further purpose at this stage.’ You didn’t have any logical response then, and you still don’t. You just ignore anything you can’t argue against and change the issue.

                  • Arcanek

                    It’s not religion that is evil. All of our ‘knowledge’ is religion, since we know nothing in absolution. It is the imposition of one’s beliefs on others that is evil. It doesn’t matter whether the religion is ‘spiritual’, political. scientific, etc., it is the imposition of those beliefs by the use, or threat of use, of force that is evil.

          • AS1124

            WTF are you trying to prove. Im a Jew and your comments are sickening.

            • Robert Munro

              Well, you either have the intelligence of a gnat or are part of the self-styled “chosen” master-race.
              Re-read my comment. I took that quote from your “Jewish Virtual Library” web site.

        • FedUp

          The only person that needs to be ignored is you sir

        • Katanon

          You forgot the m before the b in your name. Just trying to help you out, kid. 😉

      • minnajolly

        sdvsdvsd

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