The Pentagon Re-Packaged Al Qaeda As ‘Khorasan Group’ To Sell Attack On Syria

Only after the US conducted strikes in Syria against the Khorasan Group, national security officials began offering a “more nuanced picture” on the threat that verged on being outright defensive.
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    Published in partnership with Shadowproof.

    United States officials misled the public about a Syrian terrorist group, the Khorasan Group, in the run up to air strikes in the country in 2014. The group was not new, as officials suggested, but essentially a group of reinforcements for the country’s Al Qaeda affiliate.

    In September 2014, just prior to a United States military strike in Syria, the mainstream media began reporting on the Khorasan Group.

    Even close observers of the U.S. War on Terror were unaware such a group existed, let alone that it was so powerful as to “pose a more direct and imminent threat to the United States” than ISIS, as was attributed to anonymous U.S. government national security officials speaking to the Associated Press

    The rest of the mainstream media echoed the AP in their reporting, and, suddenly, the homeland was facing a new existential threat. But, after the US strikes in Syria against the Khorasan Group, national security officials began offering a “more nuanced picture” on the threat that verged on being outright defensive.

    Both FBI Director James Comey and Pentagon Spokesman John Kirby admitted their intelligence in Syria was weak, but stood by the claim that the group existed. Comey said, “What I could see concerned me very much that they were working toward an attack.” Kirby gave a better safe than sorry rationale for the attack: “We hit them. And I don’t think we need to throw up a dossier here to prove that these are bad dudes.”

    Journalists began calling bullshit and wondering if the group even existed, let alone posed such an imminent and serious threat to the United States.

    A recent interview conducted by Shadowproof brought back up some old questions about U.S. military operations in Syria and the Khorasan Group.  In our interview with veteran war reporter and terrorism expert Elijah Magnier, we asked if such a group existed and if they mattered. Magnier responded (around 42:15):

    Shadowproof: Do you remember when Obama launched this bombing he talked about something called The Khorasan Group? […] Many experts were scratching their heads. […] Did you know who that group was? Are they still active?

    Elijah Magnier: The Khorasan Group is, basically, the group that came from Khorasan. This is where Ayman al-Zawahiri is believed to be based and they form the old core of Al Qaeda who joined the emir of Jabhat al-Nusra—or Al Qaeda in Syria—following the request of Ayman al-Zawahiri himself, who asked all of Al Qaeda to join Julani, to support him and to support Al Qaeda in Syria.

    So the core group of Al Qaeda, many elements of the core group, form what is called the Khorasan Group and this is what the United States was targeting. Yes, they were targeting genuine targets there and they were targeting elements that have a long list of activity against the West, against the United States and Europe and that were involved in different kinds of relationships with at the time with Bin Laden, Zawahiri, and in Yemen, and in other parts of the Middle East. So yes, they exist.

    These details were completely left out of the explanation during the run up to the 2014 U.S. strikes in Syria. Rather than being a new separate, menacing group, the Khorasan Group were essentially seasoned reinforcements for the Al Qaeda affiliate in Syria, known as Jabhat al-Nusra (recently rebranded as Jabhat Fateh al-Sham).

    Now, in 2017, the U.S. has changed course and is arming groups in alliance with the Al Qaeda affiliate. And, again, the U.S. mainstream press is mindlessly repeating government talking points. The only constant is bad journalism.

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    • Stern Daler

      MSM and US services will never learn. In 2013 when I looked for a group then characterized as democratic moderate insurgants by MSM I found the name as known terrorists in an US data bank. It was when the first reports turned up about a few jihadi among FSA in Syria.

    • Josh Stern

      The headline of this article could be better.

      It could read “The group of Syrian rebels Assad’s Government is fighting in 2016, was sometimes called ‘al Qaeda in Syria’, and sometimes called ‘Khorasan Group’ by the U.S. government.”

      Then the body of the article might say – “Having sometimes attacked that group, and sometimes sent arms to it, the US govt. now prefers to stay on the sidelines and watch their battle with Assad destroy what’s left of Syria.”

      One of the unanswered questions is whether the U.S. govt. also sent arms to ISIS in Syria. ISIS uses almost entirely U.S. weapons. Some of those came from Iraq. Infowars has claimed that some were shipped to Syria from Libya after the fighting there ended.

      This article – – shows that the U.S. was backing ISIL before it decided that ISIL was more of a threat than either al Qaeda or Assad. Was the CIA sending ISIL weapons at that time? History suggests that “very high chance of it” is the logical answer.

    • Pingback: Pentagon Re-Packages Al-Qaeda as ‘Khorasan Group’ to Sell Attack on Syria* | Hwaairfan's Blog()

    • James Wherry

      “tapatio’s” efforts to smear the United States and Israel prove he’s just trying to “divert and deceive.” ISIL are Muslims supported by other Muslims.

      “The greatest prerequisite in the war against ISIS (and AQ, Boko Haram, etc) is the recognition of EXACTLY who benefits from those terrorist organizations………..QUI BONO is the first question that MUST be asked in every criminal investigation.” So, let’s do this thing:

      1. IRAN supported ISIL’s fore-runner, AQI leader Abu Musab al-Zarqawi to murder U.S. Americans Soldiers that TAPATIO HATES.

      “Iran long provided shelter and protection to the founder and former commander of al Qaeda in Iraq (AQI), the predecessor to Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (ISIL or ISIS), which rose to power due in
      large part to Tehran’s support, according to multiple intelligence reports and outside experts.”

      See also: “

      “What ISIS Owes Iran.”

      2. SYRIA: Assad buys oil from ISIS and attacks ISIS’ enemies, instead of attacking ISIS. Assad helped violent extremist enter Iraq through Syria to murder our Soldiers – that TAPATIO also hates.

      “Syria: Isis advance on Aleppo aided by Assad regime air strikes, US says”

      SYRIA helped create ISIL.

      Syria is DIRECTLY supporting ISIL.

      • Stern Daler

        You cannot smear the US – they smeared themselves.

        • James Wherry

          Unlike you, however, “tapatio” claims to be an American and claims to love his country. But then, he claims a lot of things. . .

          As to America, no, we saved Europe in WWI and WWII. We stopped the attacks by the warlord in the northern part of Korea. Were it not for the USA, all of Korea would be under Kim Jung-un. We stopped and reversed Saddam Hussein’s invasion of Kuwait and his planned invasion of the rest of the Gulf States. We prevented the Genocide of the Kurds by Saddam Hussein. We liberated Afghanistan from the Taliban tyranny and we liberated Iraq from Saddam Hussein. Today, Afghanistan is a stable democracy, despite brutal attacks from the remnants of the Taliban and their Pakistani masters. And whether I like the fact that Iraq follows Tehran’s lead or not, it is still a stable democracy that has free and fair elections and is secular.

          Your welcome.

          • Stern Daler

            The US did not save Europe in WW I. They merely helped the Entente to create the causes for the WW II, Serbia-Yugoslav war and a score of wars in the area that were ordered by the Sykes Picot arrangements. And they are the contrary of a white knight. While I do not like “tapatio”‘s line of anti Semitic and communist thought and conclusions I must admit there are some historical reasons to think that way. As we both know. Banking Houses around the Zionist Rothschilds floated the bonds to secure the Entente victory during WW I. Many of these bonds were floated in the US and when there was danger that they would default because of an Entente defeat, the US Wilson government took care to prevent that. The Rothschilds motivation besides normal banking profits was to secure the Balfour declaration. That was the founding manifesto of the state of Israel and is one of the reasons how the borders are shaped in the Middle East today. p.s. Israel has a right to exist, the Jews have a right to be there and they have a right to peace which the Muslims do not give.

            • James Wherry

              The United States and its allies won WWI. The United States received none of the reparations from Germany that caused the problems that led to WWI. What we DID do was to employ Herbert Hoover to help with reconstruction of Europe – our own version of the Marshall Plan. America is a “giver” not a “taker.”

              • Stern Daler

                Nobody denies that the US won in WW I. Especially economically.The US were part of the Versailles treaty. Period. => Herbert Hoover to help with reconstruction of Europe => The whole of Europe or not rather just Belgium and eastern Europe? There was nothing to be taken? According to my history book the US did not give Merck & co: but took it and other private property of Germans.

    • tapatio
    • tapatio


      The Rothschilds created Zionism, the Saudi “royals” and the Bolshevik “Revolution” as vehicles to expand its power. Bolshevism (Communism) failed. Zionism (Judeo-Fascism) has, so far, partially succeeded.

      First is a plan, written for Netanyahu’s reign as Emperor of Greater Israel. The writer is the pseudo-American Zionist fanatic, Richard Perle………

      “………by establishing the precedent that Syrian territory is not immune to attacks emanating from Lebanon by Israeli proxy forces.”

      Next is a report A Report of The Project for the New American Century completed in September 2000………..

      Compare actual events from 2001 to date to the plans outlined in this “report”. Please note, at the end of the report, the list of fanatical Zionists and their sycophants who are responsible for……

      “REBUILDING AMERICA’S DEFENSES Strategy, Forces and Resources For a New Century”

      “Israel can shape its strategic environment, in cooperation with Turkey and Jordan, by weakening, containing, and even rolling back Syria. This effort can focus on removing Saddam Hussein from power in Iraq — an important Israeli strategic objective in its own right”

      Paul Wolfowitz
      William Kristol
      Alvin Bernstein
      Eliot Cohen
      David Epstein
      Donald Kagan
      Fred Kagan
      Robert Kagan
      Robert Killebrew
      Steve Rosen
      Gary Schmitt
      Abram Shulsky
      Dov Zakheim

    • Pingback: #StopWar on #Syria Articles – All About Being Human (award-free zone)()

    • James Wherry

      So? Whether al-Queada had a “Khorasan Group” (which the story admits), or whether we were bombing ISIL, who cares??? We already have a world-wide war against al-Quaeda and its affiliates because of the Global War on Terror – ISIL is simply a spin off (or, a “rip off”) of al-Quaeda.

      None of that suggests we attacked the Syrian Government, and nothing in this story proves the military misled anyone.

      Again, I FIRMLY oppose getting involved with Syria and its civil war, but I’d quite happily help to destroy groups that have DECLARED WAR on the USA and MADE WAR on the USA like al-Nusra, al-Quaeda (and its affiliates) and ISIL. For ISIL, we have a duty under international law to destroy them because they are committing GENOCIDE. See the U.N. Charter and the Genocide Convention.

      The Syrian government, however, poses no threat to the United States, so unless it continues to use chemical weapons, I would never support military engagement or the support of military engagement against the Assad regime.

      • The Sleep of Reason

        Meanwhile, David Petraeus was advocating supporting al Qaeda, and we indeed did support them. And we did indeed attack the Syrian government, both directly and by creating an army of terrorist fighters. The CIA spent a billion a year arming and training fighters in a camp in Jordan for insertion into Syria. Ten thousand were sent in by early 2015, according to the Washington Post. By October of last year our terrorists were reeling and Obama was considering sending in bombers to decimate the Syrian government and take out Assad himself. Russia said they would shoot down our planes, so Obama backed down. This behavior amounts to treason by the highest levels of our government, for supporting terrorists during a war on terror meets the Constitutional definition.

        • James Wherry

          The “fighters” trained in Jordan were not ISIL members. Some went to other groups after “graduation,” however, which shows why we should not get involved in these civil wars in the middle east.

          And no: we are NOT supporting ISIL. Why would we blow up what we are supporting?

          Russia is nowhere near Mosul – and that’s where ISIL is collapsing. Next is Raqqa, Syria:

          America’s allies are massing around Raqqa to cut off the
          head of the snake – not Russia.


; “Report

          “More American Commandos Push Into Syria Before the Battle for Raqqa”

          Russia is concentrating on far less repugnant targets, since America is doing such a great job with ISIL. “‘More than 90%’ of Russian airstrikes in Syria have not targeted Isis, US says”

          “Russians Strike Targets in Syria, but Not ISIS Areas”

          • The Sleep of Reason

            They are all terrorists, but we find it convenient to call our mercenaries “rebels.” If they fight for us they are always rebels. If they fight against us, they are always terrorists. Even if a rebel eats the heart of a Syrian soldier, he is still a rebel to our government. So it’s all a fraud.

            • Stern Daler

              Not so fast there are causes that are just. But MSM have blurred it. So we have propaganda – and then it is as You say.

          • Stern Daler

            Read A/RES/2625(XXV) to know what the US have done. A crime to train and fund any terrorist that fights another country. p.s. This US policy is the exuberance
            of their third extension of Manifest Destiny. First it was a widely
            held belief in the United States that its settlers were destined to
            expand across North America. Second that the expansion of the United
            States throughout both American continents was justified and
            inevitable. Third since 1912 or so the US elites act upon the
            premise that US exceptionalism destined them for world domination.

            • James Wherry

              1. President Monroe articulated the Monroe Doctrine to keep European countries from dominating and destroying the nations of the Americas. We opposed European colonialism, from the beginning. After WWII, we pushed Britain and France to give up their colonial possessions.

              You’re welcome.

              2. I despise the intervention into the Mexican Civil War when the administration promised us it would not do so, but what do you do about the fact that Pancho Villa takes an Army into Columbus, New Mexico and slaughters our people in 1916? That doesn’t sound like your delusional “Manifest Destiny.”

              3. I think WWI was ill-advised and we should have stayed out of it and sent weapons and that was about all, but it was not about “Manifest Destiny:” unlike Muslims, we have no belief that “allah” or God has given us a commission to conquer the world and bring everyone under submission to US. After WWI, we took no land in Europe, but went and came home.

              4. WWII was a war of choice, all the way up until the attack on Pearl Harbor. And we stayed OUT of WWII until we ourselves were attacked. Was that our “destiny?” Were the acts of the Japanese, Germans and Italians “legal?” We supported the “resistance.” Viva la Resistance! Are those your “terrorists” that we should NOT have supported????

              5. Korea. I never like to get involved in anyone’s civil war, but we were still in the Pacific theater and in Korea, when the warlord of the north attacked the south. Was THAT “legal?” We supported no “terrorist militias.”

              6. Vietnam – I am a Barry Goldwater Republican, so you won’t ever get me to approve of that war. The matter went bad, when President Eisenhower – one of my favorite Presidents – scuttled an election because he knew Ho Chi Minh would win. He did not, however, send in troops. That was for JFK and LBJ who MESSED UP BAD. Thank GOD for Richard Nixon to get us out of Vietnam!!! I wish Barry Goldwater had been elected and had done so. The Pentagon Papers proved that LBJ knew he could not win the war.

              7. Grenada – was the invasion by the Cubans “legal?” Most Leftist critics employ a double standard and never discuss anyone else. We supported no “militias.”
              8. Afghanistan. Glad to have supported the Mujahadeen. I remember when the Soviets were dropping bombs made to look like toys and pens so little kids would pick them up and blow their arms off. It brought down the Soviet Union.

              9. Gulf War I – Hey, we didn’t do it, but we answered the call of a sovereign nation and didn’t support any “terrorists.” We went in and did the job, ourselves.

              10. Same for Gulf War II.

              11. Same for Afghanistan and Iraq: we did it, ourselves.

              • Stern Daler

                On 1f. Yes. But they were Spanish speaking and only changed their colonial master to Gringo – purely to the economic and political advantage of the US. Nothing changed for the peones.

                On 3. As Wilson said: The US needs new markets. After gobbling up the Americas. So in WW I the US supplied the Entente for profit. And when floating war bonds to finance the merchandise of death was going to bleed US financial circles and the middle class because the Kaiser was still looking better then Entente the US saved not Europe but their own war economy. Wilson’s 14 points were just a war ruse. The US policy never lived up to them after WW I. The Versailles treaty with its reparations destabilized not only Germany as intended but the world economy. The resulting depression helped Hitler ( an Austrian veteran with untreated battle trauma from gas injuries acquired while fighting as volunteer for Germany ) to grow the NSDAP. Later as Chancellor – he usurped dictatorial powers by imprisoning opposing MPs to pass the Enabling Act ( Ermächtigungsgesetz a 1933 Weimar Constitution amendment that gave the German Cabinet – in effect, Chancellor better dictator Adolf Hitler – the power to enact laws without the involvement of the Reichstag). We both know that Hitler was mentally ill, bent on revenge and wanted war.

                On 4. The attack at Pearl Harbor.was owed to the US oil embargo on Japan as we both know. The US government wanted to goad Japan into an attack. Because the US public did not want open war. Only old ships were sunk at Pearl Harbor – and we also both know why. No the US did not keep out – they again supplying the war for gain. Again only countries that they could reach. Britannia again prevented all others from being supplied. Yes this time the adversaries of Britannia and co were all dictatorships. But we also both know this: It was the US economic policies that helped to shape the world that way during and just after the Great War.

                On 5 ff. During WW II US learned again – that they can live well from war. Bretton Woods to finance all US war expenses via printed $, full employment and all German private patents plus other spoils… The arrangement of Bretton Woods was so lucrative that the US defended all the countries that accept this monetary arrangement. The new and international form of a protection racket. Countries that want to leave fare like Libya recently are bombed their dictators killed. Yes even I know that my home country is under the US empire’s protective umbrella too. But we pay for it via the monetary arrangement.

                On 6. N. Vietnam was a dictatorship. The US war was too lame. Mine the Gulf of Ton-kin, bomb the rice dams above Hanoi during rainy season, block the railway to China. That would have quenched the Northern lust for war and kept the South free.

                On 7 ff The US have stopped to adhere to A/RES/2625(XXV) and the Charta of the UN because only the UN Security Counsel can endorse sanctions and military actions. This is not Korea any more where the communists broke the peace and vetoed help.

                What remains? The arrangement of Bretton Woods is so lucrative for the US that all policy is arranged around the military industrial complex. The process started in 1912 with Wilson or is an extension of Manifest Destiny. You did not like my short opinionated comment – this was the same only with reasons given. Regards.

                • James Wherry

                  We prevented Japan from buying oil from US. We did not forbid it from buying oil from anyone else. We had the right to refuse to buy or sell from Japan.

                  Given its hideous evil in the Rape of Nanjing, what else do you think we should have done? If we had continued to sell oil to them, wouldn’t YOU have complained that we were “making American oil companies rich at the expense of human rights in China????”

                  Typical of anti-Americans and American/European Leftists: America is “dam@ed if we do/dam@ed if we don’t.”

                  • Stern Daler

                    The US government wanted the war and did the needed not for humanity but to fight.
                    Nanjing was not the reason but the excuse. The US had little qualms when it served them.
                    Authoritarian, dictator no matter business is business. => American/European Leftists: => LOL. We both know IMHO. The rage in the late 30ties was Fascism and Communism all over the Western countries. Only that most countries did not completely fall like the countries we associate with these ideologies today. Even wealthy old democaries like the US and France were not immune. p.s. If You consider me Leftist You are mistaken. I am a conservative petty capitalist. But that does not mean the same here as in Your country. Since 2012 I have grown from Anglophilia to Anglophobia. But I still think that Obama was a far better president than many in the US think. But as a Prof of law he should have known to keep international laws and not have howled with the services and not given them a free leash.

          • Stern Daler

            It was predictable that they’d defect to ex-Qaeda or IS. IMHO. The only democratic group is IMHO the SFA Southfront alliance in Daraa.

            • James Wherry

              Predictable, but not intended.

              I agree, however, that this is why the United States should never, ever, ever get involved in civil wars in the middle east: all sides hate us.

              Funny story, the bombing of two Shi’ite mosques happened last year in Yemen. One survivor was outraged. “We were just at the point where we were cursing America and Israel!”

              So, who should I “root” for?!? Answer: NO ONE.

              • Stern Daler

                Yes – like the shouting guy said – Israel the US and capitalism are always at fault (for some).

    • Norm
    • tapatio

      It really isn’t the Pentagon’s fault. They’re nothing but sock-puppets of the Rothschild-Bilderberg Predatory Empire.


      The Rothschilds created Zionism, the Saudi “royals” and the Bolshevik “Revolution” as vehicles to expand its power. Bolshevism (Communism) failed. Zionism (Judeo-Fascism) has, so far, partially succeeded.

      First is a plan, written for Netanyahu’s reign as Emperor of Greater Israel. The writer is the pseudo-American Zionist fanatic, Richard Perle………

      “………by establishing the precedent that Syrian territory is not immune to attacks emanating from Lebanon by Israeli proxy forces.”

      Next is a report A Report of The Project for the New American Century completed in September 2000………..

      Compare actual events from 2001 to date to the plans outlined in this “report”. Please note, at the end of the report, the list of fanatical Zionists and their sycophants who are responsible for……

      “REBUILDING AMERICA’S DEFENSES Strategy, Forces and Resources For a New Century”

      “Israel can shape its strategic environment, in cooperation with Turkey and Jordan, by weakening, containing, and even rolling back Syria. This effort can focus on removing Saddam Hussein from power in Iraq — an important Israeli strategic objective in its own right”

      Paul Wolfowitz
      William Kristol
      Alvin Bernstein
      Eliot Cohen
      David Epstein
      Donald Kagan
      Fred Kagan
      Robert Kagan
      Robert Killebrew
      Steve Rosen
      Gary Schmitt
      Abram Shulsky
      Dov Zakheim

      • James Wherry

        As stated above, “tapatio” is a neo-NAZ! who hates Jews. See above for the proof.

        • tapatio

          THIS IS JUDAISM in Palestine…………….

          A cult capable of committing, supporting and defending the crimes below IS A DISEASE and should be eradicated from this Earth …………….

          Jews Blow Up and Kill Palestinian Boy By Force-Feeding Him Gasoline

          IDF snipers caught on camera shooting at Gaza children and celebrating a ‘hit’

          Israeli rabbi who advocated rape of ‘comely gentile women’ during war becomes chief army rabbi –

          UN: Palestinian Children Tortured, Used as Human Shields by Israel

          Israeli soldiers who used Palestinian boy, 9, as a human shield avoid jail

          “Concentrate” and “exterminate”: Israel parliament deputy speaker’s Gaza genocide plan

          Leading Rabbi Encourages IDF Soldiers to Use Palestinian Human Shields


          IDF T-Shirts Boast of Killing Babies, Pregnant Women, Sodomizing Hamas Leaders

          Jews Murdering and Harvesting the Organs of Palestinian and Kidnapped Children

          Take No Prisoners – The Fatal Shooting of Palestinians by Israeli Security Forces during “Arrest Operations”

          Human rights situation in Palestine and other Jewish occupied Arab territories



          • Stern Daler

            Other extremists are no better but worse.

            • tapatio

              Outside of ISIS, AQ, Boko Haram and other Western/Saudi supported terrorist groups, who might be as barbaric as the Zionists?


              • Stern Daler

                The Marxist of various colours are just as barbaric. They are a cult coming from the same basic roots as the Zionists and the Takfir. Vater Marx came from that Jewish & monotheist branch and secularised the idea of the jubilee (Leviticus 25:1-4, 8-10, NASB), combined it with Hegel’s ideas. The revolutionary war against the capitalists was always waged according to the principles of Jihad – holy war. You can take all they have and treat them and their families like animals in the name of the of the dictatorship of the proletariat. p.s. So capitalist has the same place as the non Jew for the Zionists or the apostate for the Muslim Takfiri. He is dehumanised & unprotected game to be robbed and slaughtered. Not protected by 10 commandments.. .

                • James Wherry

                  So you’re saying the people who fight capitalism – the Green Party for example – are waging a “jihad” against capitalists?

                  • tapatio


                  • Stern Daler

                    Maybe not the Green party. But look into the past and at our friend tapido’s rants. Totalitarians are all the same.

                    • James Wherry

                      Actually, what you said makes sense: listening to the far left for the past two weeks, the mission to destroy America’s business has taken on the trappings and the rhetoric of a Holy Crusade.

                      • Stern Daler

                        Social measures do not destroy capitalism. It is an empty claim of the Neos. But business has to stay profitable and You cannot distribute the capital like some left wingers claim. These claims are IMHO empty and geared to catch votes. p.s. Yes. IMHO it is the rhetoric of the scriptures – jubilee too is secularized. All totalitarians have much in common – even tapatio agrees. Only that he limits his observations to those he does not like. And I am critical to all. Smirk.

                      • James Wherry

                        We may have to agree in part and disagree in part. It’s the Left that talks about “distribution of wealth.” Those of us on the Right know that wealth is not “distributed,” it is “earned.” The Left thinks that economic development is taking a dollar from me and giving it to you.

                        We FULLY agree on what is essential: you MUST lower the cost of production in this nation in order to compete, when you have a virtually free market world economy. So long as consumers want the best product for the cheapest price, that’s what has to happen.

                        * You can lower the minimum wage, but most of the exportable jobs – manufacturing – make more than the minimum wage to begin with.

                        * You can lower taxes on manufacturing and replace them with a Value Added tax that comes OFF of all exports – that’s what Germany and Sweden do. (My Leftist friends talk about how “unfair” a VAT is to the poor, but joblessness is pretty unfair, too!) NOTE that I did not say lower taxes on CORPORATIONS. I’m not going to drive across the border for a cheeseburger: only those jobs that can be exported are the ones that worry me. Absent that, a corporate tax break is just a give away to the rich.

                        * Energy costs? China subsidizes energy consumed by manufacturers in China. We could at least subsidize manufacturers purchasing energy-producing equipment like solar panels (made in the USA).

                      • Stern Daler

                        Neos overview and do not like. There is some redistribution of income via taxes anyway. IMHO that is fair because freedom from want is a right. Where I disagree with the left is the threshold. Basics such as food, roof clothing, basic healthcare,education are given subsidized via taxes if needed. Amenities like a posh holiday must be earned. The right to hold and decide about capital must be also earned. Income but not capital can be redistributed via taxes. Guarantee of property is a basic also. The left forgets this part of all modern constitutions. Their main argument is greed for the rich that withhold presumably the aquired surplus value from the working class. But surplus is IMHO part of the capital – its interest in %.

                        IMHO Western countries can subsidize energy… and to a certain extend even labour cost (we need a certain minimum wage to live) to give equal chances to their home industries. This is because through harsher environmental laws and higher prices they are at an disadvantage. This has nothing to do with infringing free trade. But allowing these subsidies must not lead to protectionism. Certain jobs will and must go to places that have e.g. less capital and education but other assets that make the competitive.

                      • James Wherry

                        As a conservative, I don’t think that “freedom from want,” is a right enforceable at law and it should not be, but yes somethings are indeed subsidized by tax dollars.

                        When I look at things that ought to be a subsidized, I look at things that can be used for the common good. I would like to see our federal government spend more on infrastructure, including state of the art public high schools and grade schools. Indirectly, that does subsidize everyone’s education, But just like a public road or a public bridge everyone can use them.

                        I tend to have greater objections over the redistribution of wealth from one person to another through taxation.

                      • Stern Daler

                        As a conservative I think that “freedom from want” should not be paid by tax – except in an emergency – but by a solidarity scheme. The state must not collect taxes for it but merely organise by statutes. People pay a percentage from their wages for health insurance, pensions, age care, other benefits and free or cheap education till way into university. The later is paid by taxes – for the others the state has made laws so that the people can organise them themselves. It is simply illegal here to have no heath insurance. You would cost the community if You get sick. Most health insurances are cooperatives but there are also private companies. That way they compete and do not run out of bounds – which they would with a tax scheme where money does not matter. And most of all the state must not own such schemes. It gives too much power.

                        I have no objections to re-distribute income via taxes because that is a renewable resource but taxing wealth or capital in a way that destroys the substance is IMHO confiscation.

                      • James Wherry

                        Ah, I misunderstood you and that is my fault. Thanks. I too want some sort of social welfare safety net, but its goal should be to get those who can be gotten off of public assistance to do so. I prefer job training to simply handouts that only maintain poverty.

                        What bugs me about Obamacare is that we were promised that people having insurance would mean all bills got paid and that this would lower the cost of health care or health insurance. So far as I know, deductibles are still not being paid – and my doctor has not been lowering his or her costs to my knowledge, but pocketing the difference, LOL!

                      • Stern Daler

                        No – I fumbled. Some job training for those capable is paid via unemployment benefits here. Sanctions for those that do not cooperate.

                        Obamacare was a big idea but a botched job. He should have shopped around. All must be insured (You need a big paying base) and there must be cooperatives besides private companies (else You also pay the shareholders).

                        People on basic care will have to wait sometimes because first class insurance pays more for the docs. Hospitals and docs actually ok this. It fills gaps with less profitable cases.

                        Emergencies and good payers – then foot sloggers like me. ROFL:

                      • James Wherry

                        Despite being conservative, I think you need a single-payer system, but what you REALLY need, however, are rules that bring down the actual costs of health CARE – not health INSURANCE. Unfortunately, Congress did not want to tell the docs or the Big Pharmacies that “We can’t afford your products.”

                        I support the Cadillac Insurance Plan tax because those expensive plans create a market for boutique medical practices and drive the cost of health care up for everyone else by taking those docs out of the market. I wouldn’t object to privatized insurance, as a supplement, though. Ultimately, a solution may cost MORE money: Medicaid should pay what Medicare does so that more docs will see Medicaid patients.

                      • Stern Daler

                        No. Parliament should not tell them anything about care costs in a free market system.

                        There might be better systems than here – Obama should have shopped around.

                        Here: Self-government/administration created by laws but organised privately. There are commissions comprised of representatives of docs, health insurances and patients that decide what is good main stream state of the art. Then a body of basic insurances parley with the union of docs, hospitals and pharmaceutical side for prices. And if You do not have a block booster treatment or spice as monopoly You do only get a fair price. Then there is a scheme for so called private patients usually people that are in expense insurance plans – that is capped too but higher.

                        And if You do not join the system/scheme at all You are out and only in the private paying market and not represented in the self administration. I have seen few signs: Private patients only.

                        Asking too much cuts certain treatments out of the mass insurance plan market with only some private insurances paying. So most join price contracts. With MRT they settled for payments near the break even point to fill their gaps. Docs claim even bellow. The consequence: You wait if You are no emergency for a month or more. I booked one MRT privately because a doc claimed he cannot find anything that warrants it. The appointment was the next day! The fee according the federal medical scale of charges almost three times normal. I know for certain because my insurance had to reimburse the normal insurance fee. Since they found a severe meniscus injury – not normal attrition due to age.

                • tapatio

                  Rothschild-Bilderberg Criminal Bankster Cartel’s sponsorship of the Bolshevik-Communist “Revolution”.
                  Karl Marx was Jewish, a 3rd cousin of the reigning Rothschild, and both he and Friedrich Engels had connections to the Rothschild banking family. There is a great deal more evidence that the Rothschilds sponsored the Bolshevik “Revolution” and the slaughter of over fifty million Christian (with some Muslim) Russians. There were almost no Jewish victims of this genocide.

                  Letters written by Baruch Levy, a close associate of the
                  Rothschild family, and by Lev Trotsky/Bronstein…..
                  “The Jewish people as a whole will become its own Messiah. It will attain world domination by the dissolution of other races, by the abolition of frontiers, the annihilation of monarchy and by the establishment of a world republic in which the J6ws will everywhere exercise the privilege of citizenship.
                  In this New World Order, the children of Israel will furnish all the leaders without encountering opposition. The Governments of the different peoples forming the world republic will fall without difficulty into the hands of the J6ws. It will then be possible for the J6wish rulers to abolish private property and everywhere to make use of the resources of the state.
                  Thus will the promise of the Talmud be fulfilled, in which it is said that when the Messianic time is come, the J6ws will have all the property of the whole world in their hands.”

                  –Baruch Levy, Letter to Karl Marx (written – 1879), printed in La Revue de Paris, p. 574, June 1, 1928

                  “We should turn Russia into a desert populated with white Ni**ers. We will impose upon them such a tyranny that was never dreamt by the most hideous despots of the East. The peculiar trait of that tyranny is that it will be enacted from the left rather than the right and it will be red rather than white in color. Its color will be red literally because we would spill such torrents of blood that they will pale all human losses of the capitalist wars and make (the survivors) shudder.
                  THE LARGEST OVERSEAS BANKS WILL COOPERATE WITH US MOST CLOSELY (Rothschild Cartel, which financed the Bolsheviks). If we win the Revolution and squash Russia, on the funeral pyres of its remains we will strengthen thepower of Zionism and become a power the whole world would drop in the face of on its knees. We will show (to the world) what real power means. By way of terror and blood baths we will bring the Russian intelligentsia into a state of total stupor, to idiocy, to the animal state of being…. And so far our young men dressed in leather – the sons of watch repair men from Odessa and Orsha, Gomel and Vinnitza – oh, how beautifully, how brilliantly do they master hatred of everything Russian!
                  With what a great delight do they physically destroy the Russian intelligentsia ~ officers, engineers, teachers, priests, generals, agronomists, academicians, writers!”
                  ~ Leib Bronstein (also known as Lev TROTSKY)
                  Few in the world today are aware that the original leadership of the Bolshevik-Communist “Revolution” was almost entirely Jewish and VERY FEW WERE RUSSIAN.
                  Everything below was taken from Wikipedia and verified through at least one other source………….
                  Leaders of the Bolshevik/Communist “Revolution” in Russia. These are the people who fomented this revolution and carried it out. After they had won, they embarked on a slaughter of 30 Million Russians, ALL Christians and a few Muslims. There were no known Jewish
                  victims of this genocidal act.
                  Leading Bolsheviks…….
                  Vladimir Lenin (aka Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov) Russian, Jewish
                  Lev Trotsky (aka Bronstein) Jewish
                  Lazar M. Kaganovich Jewish (oversaw slaughter of
                  30+ million Russian Christians and Muslims)
                  Alexander Israel Helphand [aka “Parvus”] Jewish
                  (helped Trotsky develop the theory of “permanent revolution.”)
                  Avel Enukidze Jewish
                  Mikhail Kalinin Jewish
                  Nikolai Bukharin Jewish
                  Mikhail Tomsky Jewish
                  Mikhail Lashevich Jewish
                  Lev Kamenev Jewish
                  Yevgeni Preobrazhensky uncertain
                  Leonid Serebryakov Jewish
                  Vladimir Lenin Jewish
                  Alexei Rykov Jewish
                  Grigori Y. Sokolnikov Jewish
                  Grigory Zinoviev [aka Apfelbaum; aka Radomyslsky
                  Felix Dzherzhinsky Jewish
                  (founder of Cheka/NKVD/KGB/etc)
                  Lavrenti Beria Jewish
                  (Turned Cheka/NKVD/KGB into a monster. Beria instigated the mass executions of the Katyn massacre)
                  Yakov Sverdlov [aka Solomon] Jewish
                  (supervised massacre of Czar’s family)
                  Sergei M. Kirov Jewish
                  (supervised party purges/executions of late 1930s – 20 million dead)
                  Yakov Yurovsky Jewish
                  (carried out massacre of Czar’s family)
                  (other members of the Czar death squad: Goloshchekin, Syromolotov, Safarov, Voikov, Yurovsky……..all Jewish)
                  Nikolai Bukharin Jewish
                  Ilya Ehrenburg Jewish (Propaganda Minister)

          • James Wherry

            This story was not about Judaism. Despite that, you used it has a platform to spew your usual hatred of JEWS with your fake spins on news stories. You may have noticed that your tired, worn hatred of Jews gets no more “thumb’s up.” No surprises there.

            ACTUALLY, THIS IS JUDAISM. . .


            Killing of 13-year old Palestinian Arab by Jewish settlers. Israel ARRESTED and PROSECUTED the killers.

            One received a life sentence and one received a 21-year sentence.

            Meanwhile, the Palestinian Authority and Hamas PRAISE stabbing attacks on innocent, unarmed, civilian Jews.



            2. EXAMPLE OF LIES: IDF Snipers celebrating a “hit.” They only persons fired at were people trying to murder innocent, unarmed civilians. Of course they should celebrate. TAPATIO can’t ID the targets to save his tiny soul.


            “TAPATIO” forgot to praise the JEWISH courts for blocking that appointment.


            Meanwhile, he ignores the fact that ISLAM advocates rape of POWs.

            Imam with 100 million followers: you can rape POWs.


            More imams and Muslim religious leaders:


            Egyptian Muslim religious leader:


            U.S. Imam preaching hate, theft and rape by Muslims is AOK.


            4. “Human Shields.” The Israeli Supreme Court struck the practice down. TAPATIO’s news story forgets the Soldiers were severely punished, even though no one was hurt. Here’s another story he forgot: IDF Soldier convicted for using a human shield:


            Meanwhile, Hamas USING children as human shields.

            THIS is what Hamas is legally responsible for the death count in Gaza in 2014.

            Tapa-pig lies to lie and say that it’s “the Palestinians’ business” if they shield Palestinian missile launching teams, but the use of CHILD SOLDIERS is illegal under international law.

            5. “Concentrate and exterminate.” The Deputy Speaker of the Knesset, Moshe Feiglin DID say that the CIVILIANS in the Gaza Strip should be CONCENTRATED AWAY FROM HAMAS and then Hamas SHOULD BE EXTERMINATED.

            Tapa-pig has tried to create a whole new narrative – and a whole new lie – by cutting and pasting words.

            6. Rabbi urging the use of human shields – like Hamas does?

            7. T-shirts expressing hatred of the Naz@s who run Hamas. Sounds good to me. Where do I get one? I don’t like those satan-worshippers, either.

            8. “Take no prisoners.” Gee, the Palestinians murdering innocent, unarmed Jews with knives and cars aren’t doing that, either, and the Palestinians pay them money to do so.

            9. Palestinian children “tortured,” used as human shields. The UN complains that Palestinian children are “kept in cages.” Yeah: behind BARS. They are let out for air, same as in the USA, but not permitted to roam free to escape. Got it. UN is wrong. Their mothers
            should stop encouraging them to be violent and should “man up” and take the lead and die for their hatred, if they want. The Israeli Justice Minister, Shaked, said the Palestinian Mothers should follow their children into
            martyrdom, if its such a great deal.

            10. “Organ harvesting.” Another blood libel.

            (a) Some Latin American countries permit people to sell their second kidney, instead of just the doctors getting rich on organ donation. Got it. You think American citizens aren’t buyers?

            (b) ALL the dead in Israel have their organs harvested under Israel’s “implied consent”
            law, practiced in other nations. No one is killing people to get organs: the
            Palestinian Arab who are killed trying to murder a Jew should give their organs
            to save one.

            11. Fatal shootings of Palestinian Arab attackers. Tapa-pig should spend some time trying to condemn the Palestinians who are murderers, rather than those defending themselves.

            12. “God’s Chosen People.” Yes, Isaiah 14:1 says what that, and as a Christian, I know that the Apostle Paul believed that, as well, as do I. So did Muhammad.

            But all three of the Abrahamic Faiths wrestle with the notion of being “God’s Chosen People.” There are three answers:

            a. Jews: “We were chosen to be an EXAMPLE to the world.”

            b. Christians: “We are Sinners, saved by grace and chosen by God’s mercy.”

            c. Muslims: “Heck yes, we’re chosen and we’re the best people on earth! God chose us to SUBJUGATE the rest of the non-Muslims and forced to SUBMIT to us and pay blood money (the ‘jizya’) so we don’t kill them, and that they must do so in HUMILIATION so that they convert to Islam.”

            Islam’s most influential cleric says that Muslims must act to conquer the world:


            In short, tapa-pig leaves much out and adds much in to achieve his FAKE narrative, just as he does, when he quotes FAKE Talmud quotes from non-existent books of the Talmud.

            And, honestly: if you have to lie to support your position,
            it should occur to you some day that you dont’ have a position worth
            supporting. Tapa-pig is a 70-year old, senile old Naz! who longs for the
            EXTERMINATION of Jews.

            He has called Judaism a “disease” – just like

            He has called Judaism a “cancer” – just like

            He has justified the
            Holocaust – just like Hitler.

            In short: he’s a Naz!