WikiLeaks Cables Portray Saudi Arabia As A Cash Machine For Terrorists

Hillary Clinton memo highlights Gulf states' failure to block funding for groups like al-Qaida, Taliban and Lashkar-e-Taiba.
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    Saudi Arabia is the world’s largest source of funds for Islamist militant groups such as the Afghan Taliban and Lashkar-e-Taiba – but the Saudi government is reluctant to stem the flow of money, according to Hillary Clinton.

    “More needs to be done since Saudi Arabia remains a critical financial support base for al-Qaida, the Taliban, LeT and other terrorist groups,” says a secret December 2009 paper signed by the US secretary of state. Her memo urged US diplomats to redouble their efforts to stop Gulf money reaching extremists in Pakistan and Afghanistan.

    “Donors in Saudi Arabia constitute the most significant source of funding to Sunni terrorist groups worldwide,” she said.


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    Three other Arab countries are listed as sources of militant money: Qatar, Kuwait and the United Arab Emirates.

    The cables highlight an often ignored factor in the Pakistani and Afghan conflicts: that the violence is partly bankrolled by rich, conservative donors across the Arabian Sea whose governments do little to stop them.

    The problem is particularly acute in Saudi Arabia, where militants soliciting funds slip into the country disguised as holy pilgrims, set up front companies to launder funds and receive money from government-sanctioned charities.

    One cable details how the Pakistani militant outfit Lashkar-e-Taiba, which carried out the 2008 Mumbai attacks, used a Saudi-based front company to fund its activities in 2005.

    Meanwhile officials with the LeT’s charity wing, Jamaat-ud-Dawa, travelled to Saudi Arabia seeking donations for new schools at vastly inflated costs – then siphoned off the excess money to fund militant operations.

    Militants seeking donations often come during the hajj pilgrimage – “a major security loophole since pilgrims often travel with large amounts of cash and the Saudis cannot refuse them entry into Saudi Arabia”. Even a small donation can go far: LeT operates on a budget of just $5.25m (£3.25m) a year, according to American estimates.

    Saudi officials are often painted as reluctant partners. Clinton complained of the “ongoing challenge to persuade Saudi officials to treat terrorist funds emanating from Saudi Arabia as a strategic priority”.

    Washington is critical of the Saudi refusal to ban three charities classified as terrorist entities in the US. “Intelligence suggests that these groups continue to send money overseas and, at times, fund extremism overseas,” she said.

    There has been some progress. This year US officials reported that al-Qaida’s fundraising ability had “deteriorated substantially” since a government crackdown. As a result Bin Laden’s group was “in its weakest state since 9/11” in Saudi Arabia.

    Any criticisms are generally offered in private. The cables show that when it comes to powerful oil-rich allies US diplomats save their concerns for closed-door talks, in stark contrast to the often pointed criticism meted out to allies inPakistan and Afghanistan.

    Instead, officials at the Riyadh embassy worry about protecting Saudi oilfields from al-Qaida attacks.

    The other major headache for the US in the Gulf region is the United Arab Emirates. The Afghan Taliban and their militant partners the Haqqani network earn “significant funds” through UAE-based businesses, according to one report. The Taliban extort money from the large Pashtun community in the UAE, which is home to 1 million Pakistanis and 150,000 Afghans. They also fundraise by kidnapping Pashtun businessmen based in Dubai or their relatives.

    “Some Afghan businessmen in the UAE have resorted to purchasing tickets on the day of travel to limit the chance of being kidnapped themselves upon arrival in either Afghanistan or Pakistan,” the report says.

    Last January US intelligence sources said two senior Taliban fundraisers hadregularly travelled to the UAE, where the Taliban and Haqqani networkslaundered money through local front companies.

    One report singled out a Kabul-based “Haqqani facilitator”, Haji Khalil Zadran, as a key figure. But, Clinton complained, it was hard to be sure: the UAE’s weak financial regulation and porous borders left US investigators with “limited information” on the identity of Taliban and LeT facilitators.

    The lack of border controls was “exploited by Taliban couriers and Afghan drug lords camouflaged among traders, businessmen and migrant workers”, she said.

    In an effort to stem the flow of funds American and UAE officials are increasinglyco-operating to catch the “cash couriers” – smugglers who fly giant sums of money into Pakistan and Afghanistan.

    In common with its neighbours Kuwait is described as a “source of funds and a key transit point” for al-Qaida and other militant groups. While the government has acted against attacks on its own soil, it is “less inclined to take action against Kuwait-based financiers and facilitators plotting attacks outside of Kuwait”.

    Kuwait has refused to ban the Revival of Islamic Heritage Society, a charity the US designated a terrorist entity in June 2008 for providing aid to al-Qaida and affiliated groups, including LeT.

    There is little information about militant fundraising in the fourth Gulf country singled out, Qatar, other than to say its “overall level of CT co-operation with the US is considered the worst in the region”.

    The funding quagmire extends to Pakistan itself, where the US cables detail sharp criticism of the government’s ambivalence towards funding of militant groups that enjoy covert military support.

    The cables show how before the Mumbai attacks in 2008, Pakistani and Chinese diplomats manoeuvred hard to block UN sanctions against Jamaat-ud-Dawa.

    But in August 2009, nine months after sanctions were finally imposed, US diplomats wrote: “We continue to see reporting indicating that JUD is still operating in multiple locations in Pakistan and that the group continues to openly raise funds”. JUD denies it is the charity wing of LeT.

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      • Bazukat

        In College Lauara Bush was famous for having the cleanest and yummiest pussycart on Campus, and she never said no.

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      • HairyAss

        And Saudi Arabia is a US ally. So go figure lol

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      • Mohammad Nabiul Karim

        This site is belongs to Shitti(Shia). #MintPress priority agenda is propaganda against Sunni Islam. They did it very intellectually since 1500 years. Now a day they do it openly! Nothing much say, everybody here specialist about Islam & Sunni. Indeed The
        educated differ from the uneducated] as much as the living from the dead.”


        Aristotle quoted in Lives of Eminent Philosophers by Diogenes Laërtius
        Iranian strategy in Syria http://www.understandingwar.org/sites/default/files/IranianStrategyinSyria-1MAY.pdf
        Checkmate: Iran and Assad’s Support of Al Qaeda http://www.clarionproject.org/analysis/checkmate-iran-and-assads-support-al-qaeda

      • Austin Konrad

        In other news wiki leaks reveal water is wet.

      • TRB

        Ofcourse Saudi Arabia is behind terrorism. They are financing these terrorists with millions of usd same as helping the muslim brotherhood terrorist organisation to destabilize the region politically to grab power and influence to become the voice of the arab nation. Saudi Arabia wants to dominate the world to become and islamic world.

        • The Saudis and the Muslim Brotherhood are enemies.Your post is beyond stupid.

      • foreman1178

        remember when fox news was hammering obama about treating his friends as enemies and his enemies as friends ie saudia arabia israel and foes being iran

        lets see our friends
        1 saudia arabia are funding isis and al qaida 17 of the 19 9/11 bombers were saudi
        2 israel provided false information in the war with iraq and the invasion friend ????
        3 iran our enemy is now fighting isis

        looks like obama has it right our friends have worked against us and played us a fools

      • James Wherry

        Hey, MintPressNews: here’s a new suggestion for an article: Apparently, in addition to barrel bombs and chemical weapons by the Assad regime, the Russians are now using “thermobaric bombs.”

        Despite my own military background, I wasn’t sure what that was. Now I know: it’s a bomb that sprays chemicals around that can be ignited and then sets them on fire. Apparently, it can indiscriminately destory several city blocks.

        So why no cries of “white phospherous?”

      • Shabeer Pakistani

        The USA will never let , the world in general and the Middle East in particular, stabilize. USA wants a destabilized world to continue the sale of its arms and to run its factories.

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      • Bruce

        Put Saudi Arabia under sanction and the world will be a safer place to live, no Al Qaeda and no ISIS.

        • Dominic Blais

          israel and saudi arabia and lift them from russia

      • KHW6

        We knew decades ago. hello. They believe in weird things. I read somewhere if a Muslim build a mosque, God will build a home for him/her in Heaven. lol weird fantasies.

      • expatman

        “Hillary Clinton is just the tip of the ice berg. Her husband bombed Belgrade for 84 days to give Islam its first ethnically cleansed emirate in Europe after 1489. Bush and Blair, as hired guns of the Saudi Caliphate deflected 9/11 anger to a liberal modern state where discos, bars, modern education and health services thrived along communities of Jews, Christians, Yazidis and other under Saddam Hussein which was an affront to Islam and sank more than Three Trillion Dollars and 5,000 soldiers leaving Islam’s agenda of carrying out their “prophet’s” command of establishing a global caliphate enforcing the “sharia” on the rubble of civilization, that much closer to
        accomplishment. Obama and the Saudis restarted the Cold War in reaction to (1) Putin’s open letter to Obama in the New York Times about Syria which obstructed the Grand Saudi Design (which is to carry out the commands of its “prophet” and establish a global caliphate enforcing ISIS style Sharia on the rubble of civilization). It also bent Obama’s nose by exposing White House vacuity. (2) Bandar of Saudi intelligence then went to Moscow to
        try and induce Putin to reconsider his support for Syria and opposition to the Islamic grand design. Putin sent him packing with a warning: That Russia would bomb the Q’aaba if Islam tried another Beslan at Sochi. There was, here, betwixt the US and Saudi Arabia, a congruence of bent noses motivated to harness the always dormant US predilection to fall prey to its own McCarthy-Hoover-Boston Witch Hunt proclivity driven propaganda. Russia bad,
        West good. Islam Bad but Turkey, Saudi, Qatar, Kuwait and Pakistan are good Islam. Imagine, if you can, the dividend for Islam if the US falls further upon its own sword than it did in Iraq? Saudi ambitions are now bent on further deflecting the rising wide spread anger against Islam to Iran from itself. Several retired Four Star Generals and Admirals have followed in Colin Powell’s foot-steps and testified before recent (within the last two months) Senate hearings that Iran is the danger and that Iran is the reason and source of ISIS as well as that ghost of a long defunct US-Pakistan Staff College of Guerrilla Warfare, that still haunts US propaganda, “Al Qaeda”. The Saudis may still get away with “Iran Bad, Saudi (aka ISIS, Boko Haram, Al Shebab, Taliban, Mosques,
        Madrassas, Pakistan et all) Good”, because US policy is driven by decision and opinion makers, as well as media, on Petro Dollar Pay Rolls, and the omentum of “Four legs good, two legs bad” built up in the psyche of the US Polyphemus is strong and easy to stoke. Even more than liberal modern regimes like the Baathists (Saddam Hussein and Bashar Al Assad), Saudi Wahhabi Islam is ideologically committed to eradicate “apostates” such as
        Iran (Shia), Jews and Christians, in this order. If the US, after throwing Syria to the wolves of Saudi-Wahhabi Islam, and recommencing the Cold War with Russia, now bogs down in Iran, Saudi Arabia would have advanced their “prophet’s’ agenda to near completion. As a strategist, I must admire Saudi Arabia for how they used their wealth to buy and use their ideological enemy (The US, NATO and Israel) against themselves.”

        • Mohammad Nabiul Karim
          • expatman

            The truth is a bitter pill to swallow for the people. Based on your environment, the human
            species are their environment. Thus, with the introduction and comprehension of new knowledge, we, the human species evolves to accept a more liberal belief, shy away from the fundamentalist radical religious belief in deities. The educated masses have begun to understand their purpose on earth. Now, they are in demand to control their destiny. Thru the new opium of the masses – the Internet & the news media communication systems – the masses have become aware of who controls us & the way to change, to take control of the status quo. As of now the masses remain pawns to be moved at will by the master players in the hydrocarbon, religious and media world chess game. It is a given, supply and demand; all wars are for the ownership & distribution of commodities/minerals i.e. humans, salt, gold, iron, copper, bronze, forest, oil and land. All efforts to expand and control the consumer markets of the world. To the victor belong the spoils.

            Why should the world be held hostage by the two fascist religious cults? The fascist
            religious cults pollute and hold hostage the human mind. It appears that due to religion, a nuclear war in the Middle East is inevitable and impossible to avoid or prevent.

            • Mohammad Nabiul Karim

              You are simply out of the topic,Be specific….. I don’t like your lecture, sorry.
              Nothing is absolute, what you know true, might be wrong, there is always 50/50 chance. Everything is perception,even time indeed! Regarding religion,you are simply over acting, perhaps in ignorance! Islam never hostage anybody, it’s freedom of choice. If you chose it, Ok, if not, that’s also OK. Read Quran yourself, the Quran gives you 100% freedom.
              Anyway, thanks for your opinion, take care, good luck.

              • expatman

                @MNK: This will help you understand why you believe in a superstitious deity.
                The Problem of Inbreeding in Islam
                There is a dire phenomenon rising in Europe that is crippling entire
                societies and yet the continent sleeps, refusing not only to confront the
                destructive elephant in the room, but also to admit its very existence. The
                troubling reality being referred to is the widespread practice of Muslim
                inbreeding and the birth defects and social ills that it spawns.

                The tragic effect of the left’s control of the boundaries of debate is that
                any discussion about vital issues such as these marks an individual as an
                “Islamophobe” and a “racist.” A person who dares to point at the pathology of
                inbreeding in the Muslim community is accused of whipping up hatred against
                Muslim people. But all of this could not be further from the truth. To fight
                against inbreeding anywhere is to defend humanity and to defend innocent babies
                from birth defects. Fighting against this Islamic practice stems from a
                pro-Muslim calling, since identifying destructive ideologies and practices in
                Islam enables the protection of the Muslim people from harm.

                Massive inbreeding among Muslims has been going on since their prophet
                allowed first-cousin marriages more than 50 generations (1,400 years) ago. For
                many Muslims, therefore, intermarriage is regarded as being part of their
                religion. In many Muslim communities, it is a source of social status to marry
                one’s daughter or son to his or her cousin. Intermarriage also ensures that
                wealth is kept within the family. Islam’s strict authoritarianism plays a large
                role as well: keeping daughters and sons close gives families more power to
                control and decide their choices and lifestyles.

                Westerners have a historical tradition of being ready to fight and die for
                their country. Muslims, on the other hand, are bound together less by
                patriotism, but mainly by family relations and religion. Intermarrying to
                protect the family and community from outside non-Islamic influence is much
                more important to Muslims living in a Western nation than integrating into that
                nation and supporting it.

                Today, 70 percent of all Pakistanis are inbred and in Turkey the amount is
                between 25-30 percent (Jyllands-Posten, 27/2 2009 “More stillbirths among
                immigrants“). A rough estimate reveals that close to half of everybody living
                in the Arab world is inbred. A large percentage of the parents that are blood
                related come from families where intermarriage has been a tradition for
                generations.

                A BBC investigation in Britain several years ago revealed that at least 55%
                of the Pakistani community in Britain was married to a first cousin. The Times
                of India affirmed that “this is thought to be linked to the probability that a
                British Pakistani family is at least 13 times more likely than the general
                population to have children with recessive genetic disorders.”

                The BBC’s research also discovered that while British Pakistanis accounted
                for just 3.4% of all births in Britain, they accounted for 30% of all British
                children with recessive disorders and a higher rate of infant mortality. It is
                not a surprise, therefore, that, in response to this evidence, a Labour Party
                MP has called for a ban on first-cousin marriage.

                Medical evidence shows that one of the negative consequences of inbreeding
                is a 100 percent increase in the risk of stillbirths. One study comparing
                Norwegians and Pakistanis shows the risk that the child dies during labor
                increases by 50 percent. The risk of death due to autosomal recessive disorders
                — e.g., cystic fibrosis and spinal muscular atrophy — is 18 times higher. Risk
                of death due to malformations is 10 times higher. Mental health is also at
                risk: the probability of depression is higher in communities where consanguine
                marriages are also high. The closer the blood relative, the higher the risk of
                mental and physical retardation and schizophrenic illness.

                And then there are the findings on intelligence. Research shows that if
                one’s parents are cousins, intelligence goes down 10-16 IQ points. The risk of
                having an IQ lower than 70 (criterion for being “retarded”) increases 400
                percent among children from cousin marriages. An academic paper published in
                the Indian National Science Academy found that “the onset of various social
                profiles like visual fixation, social smile, sound seizures, oral expression
                and hand-grasping are significantly delayed among the new-born inbred babies.”
                Another study found that Indian Muslim school boys whose parents were first
                cousins tested significantly lower than boys whose parents were unrelated in a
                non-verbal test on intelligence.

                • Mohammad Nabiul Karim

                  “When I left him, I
                  reasoned thus with myself: I am wiser than this man, for neither of us appears
                  to know anything great and good; but he fancies he knows something, although he
                  knows nothing; whereas I, as I do not know anything, so I do not fancy I do. In
                  this trifling particular, then, I appear to be wiser than he, because I do not
                  fancy I know what I do not know.”

                  — Socrates from “Apology,” Plato’s account of the trial of Socrates.

                  • expatman

                    You are clearly not intelligent. Because you have not evolved to not believe in a superstitious deity. Your ancestors have inbred out the common sense gene in you.

                    Really! Ask yourself. Where is the common sense to believe in Jesus and
                    Mohammed? With the invention of the Internet and computers, the ultimate tools
                    to educate, to comprehend the fact that religion is the opium of the illiterate
                    masses to control the 7 billion people. How can an intelligent person believe
                    in superstitious cult religions? How can you believe that two thirty something
                    men, Jesus and Mohammed that resided on earth 2,000 and 1,500 years ago, a
                    carpenter and an illiterate camel, goat, sheep herder and child molester, both
                    men are supposed to have all the answers for all humanity for an eternity? If
                    you believe this BS then there is no help for you. For sure, you are one of the
                    lost illiterate generation.

                    The truth is a bitter pill to swallow for the people. Based on your environment, humans are their environment. Thus, with your evolutionary environment advancement, with the introduction & comprehension of new knowledge. What will be your true beliefs & values? Do you have an original thought? The illiterate masses have begun to understand their purpose on earth. Now, they are in demand to control their destiny. Thru the new opium of the masses – the Internet & the news media communication systems – the masses have become aware of who controls us & the way to change, to take control
                    of the status quo. The masses are but pawns to be moved at will by the master players in the hydrocarbon, religious and media world chess game. It is a given, supply and demand; all wars are for the ownership & distribution of commodities/minerals i.e. humans, salt, gold, iron, copper, bronze, forest, oil and land. All efforts to expand and
                    control the consumer markets of the world. To the victor belong the spoils.

          • expatman

            @MNK: The Iraqi Shiite have an old saying…. “The Kurds move-in, raise their flag and try to take over. The only way to get rid of them is to kill them.” The Serbs feel the same way about the muslims.

      • jdsonice

        The Muslims have a simple agenda – convert everyone to become a muslim – in any manner possible without regard to anything else. When you a fanatical set of people doing it there are only two options – fall prey to them or destroy them. I say destroy them.

      • boggyg

        picking sides in tribal wars not good.i remember the bush family in the news allways kissing up to the saudi-royal family wonder why—money —and Americas got to quit running around the planet picking and choosing other countries leaders for the bankers and oil companies –talking to people from middle east –people in Iran have a lot more freedom then people in saubi-arabia ,the only thing America has against Iran is they booted Americas oil companie dictator out and the oil companies lost money same as Cuba kicking americas dictator out AMERICAN LAND OWNERS LOST MONEY

      • Karl Hand

        Time to declassify the 28 pages of the 9-11 report that implicates the Saudi royals.

        • TRB

          Without the report, Saudi arabia is implicated by financing terrorist organisations. We all know that already.

      • John Jackson

        Well, duh!

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      • Whytruthhurts

        Why only Saudi Arabia is portrayed as cash machine when Iran, US Europe and others do the same. In this world everyone wants someone on their side to protect his or her interest in the region where the parties are armed and trained to fight for the Americans or Iranians or the Saudis. America has been supporting Israeli terrorism for decades openly and they don’t call it terrorism but supporting allies.

      • Hary Kishan

        Why Saudi Arabia is our and Israel’s ally in the Middle East. Why do we support, arm, protect the royal family of Saudi Arabia? Why did we destroy the secular and liberal regimes of the region? Why we can destroy the “mighty” army of Saddam Hussain but cannot control a rag tag army of Daesh and ISIS? If you think hard then you will get the answers.

      • Ramzan Muhammad

        How fool are we? All terrorists and their roots go to the starting point with one single source the main engine CIA. And CIA was a Jewish sole enterprise till 911. After 911, Colin Powell took over CIA and replaced it with homeland security. Now defunct CIA and US government is at war around the world. God Bless America.

      • Hary Kishan

        Do we know why we destroyed the liberal and secular countries of the region and supported, protected, and armed Saudi Arabia. Do we know that Saudi Arabia is a creation of British imperialists. Saudi Arabia is the only ally of Israel in the Middle East.

      • matimal

        This is damning for Clinton.

      • mk

        This is whom they finance!

        Bukhari
        (52:54) – The words of Muhammad:
        “I would love to be martyred in Allah’s Cause and get resurrected and then get martyred,
        and then get resurrected again and then get martyred and get resurrected again
        and then get martyred”.
        This is why modern day Jihadists often say that they love death.
        “We love death. U.S. loves life. That is the difference between us two”.
        Osama Bin Laden

        Much of the Quran is dedicated to and devoted to distinguishing Muslims from no Muslims and
        imputing the latter. Among other things, non Muslims are said to be diseased
        (2:10), perverse (2:99), stupid (2:171) and deceitful (3:73).

        “We are uncompromising in our beliefs, relentless in our pursuit, ruthless against the
        disbelievers…”

        Sheikh Rage
        (Al- Shabaab), Justification on the massacre of Christians.

        Quran
        (2:216) “Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But is possible
        that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which
        is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not.

        The biggest terrorist is the God of the Quran “I know this is very dangerous and this will
        offend many people. The more you follow the steps of the prophet of Islam and
        the God of Islam, the more the more you get closer to become a terrorist”.

        Mosab Hassan Yousef (Son of Sheikh Hassan Yousef) Hamas
        leader on the west Bank.

        Quran
        (3:151)-= “Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for
        that they joined companions with Allah, for which He has sent no authority”.
        This speaks directly of polytheists, yet it also includes Christians, since
        they believe in the Trinity (ie.what Muhammad incorrectly believed to be
        ‘joining companion to Allah’).

        Those who study Islamic Holy War will understand what Islam wants to achieve.

        • Hary Kishan

          Complete lies and quoting out of context. First Islam never calls Jews and Christians as infidels. They are according to Koran are the “People of the Book” and correct in their believes. This is the propaganda Zionists have been carrying out to draw a wedge between Muslims and Christians so they carry on with their fundamentalist agenda in the Middle East. Throughout Koran, God is not asking Muslims to fight non-Muslims. It only ask Muslim to defend themselves against the invading army of the enemy and laid down the rules of engagement. These rules are more humane than the modern day Geneva Convention.

          Osama Bin Laden was a creation of CIA. It was the CIA who recruited and airlifted 20,000 mercenaries and soldiers of fortune from all over Middle East with the help of their ally, Saudi Arabia, to fight the “Evil Empire” in Afghanistan. Al Qaida, meaning The Basics in Arabic, was a register where all basic information of these “Holy Warriors” was entered. CIA kept the copy of that register and they had the data of each and every so called “Holly Warrior”. Lot of people in Muslim countries believe that Ne-Cons in USA used these fighters to carry out their agenda of “New World Order” after the fall of the Soviet Union.

          • John Jackson

            Islam is garbage.

            • Pro-Reham

              shut up u gay garbage production, u know nothing the name of own father, islam is for ever islam took a person to haven, and Allah is great mercifull

        • John Jackson

          Garbage.

        • riadh

          Sorry but you are dead wrong. I m an atheist with muslim back ground, and you cant do what you do : pick some verses out of context and make them general. No, Unbeleivers in that perticular verses are the politheist. Not the jews or christina who are people of the book. And even for politheist, its only when Islam was under attack that verses forcing muslims to remain in peace with everyone, even politheist, that those verses are applied. at times of war, in self defense. Two: ben laden is no islamic refenrence please.

      • Scott Clemens

        Pffffft.This isn’t news to me. I’ve spent a fair amount of time flying in and out of Saudi on business. The ones who aren’t outwardly hostile from the start, will be as soon as they’ve figured out they have all you’re willing to give.
        Believe me. The Sauds are not western civilization’s friends.

      • scott

        LIKE DUH

      • Bahjat Sharef

        And the U.S.
        is the cash machine for the Zionist
        terrorists occupying Palestine
        since 1948.

        Committing genocide after genocide, confiscating land from
        its rightful owners to settle Jewish immigrants from around the world and brutally
        oppress any demonstration against occupation. Isn’t the United
        States of America funding this Zionist
        menace, arming it and protecting politically and militarily.

        • James Wherry

          Would you care to define the area of “Palestine?” Has there ever been a nation with that name?

          How about the squatter camps that Israel breaks up? What title do the squatters have?

          And the “Jewish immigrants?” Aren’t they refugees run out of the rest of the Ottoman Empire? How about refugees from Europe? Are they “invaders,” or “refugees?” How about the Muslims “invading” Europe, today?

      • Victorious

        Saudi Arabia would not spend a PENNY!!!!!without the permission of USA!!!!

        • scott

          BS

      • SB

        The government is getting out of hand with its imperialistic foreign policy. Real Americans need to rise up and bring an end to it.

      • James Wherry

        Why no comment about the putrid filth of Iran and Syria which regularly fund terrorists?

        • flameaway

          Why not worry about our allies who are doing the same thing?

          • James Wherry

            I’ve already been bold enough to condemn them on these pages. You end up being the only Silent Stooge.

            • flameaway

              How can I be silent while I’m disagreeing with you?

              • James Wherry

                You can be “silent,” by failing to condemn the Shi’ites in Iran or Syria. I presume there is a political motive by you to not criticize those murderers.

                • flameaway

                  Why would I criticize Iran or Syria in an article about Saudi Arabia?

                  • James Wherry

                    To add perspective and balance. Otherwise, you’d be a hypocrite.

                    • jottritter

                      Let’s see- how many Shiites were involved in 9/11? How about the Paris and London bombings? The Charlie Hebdo killings?

                      • James Wherry

                        Let’s see: how many Sun’ni’s were involved in the massacre of 290 U.S. Marines and French Soldiers in Beirut? None. How many Sun’ni’s kidnapped, tortured and murdered Col. (USMC) William F. Higgins? None. How many Sun’ni’s were responsible for importing thousands of IEDs and EFPs from Iran into Afghanistan and Iraq, murdering thousands of U.S. troops and Sun’ni civilians? None.

                        • Iamstilllearning

                          So glad to have stumbled across your posts, Mr. James Wherry! Lucky, lucky me…so refreshing- to find such an articulate, cogent voice to counter the noise out here :). Thank you for your service: it’s men like you that make me proud to be an American. Very proud, and humbled.

                          Bless you, keep up the good fight- no doubt you are making a difference. You’ve certainly helped me. I’ll be taking notes 🙂

                    • flameaway

                      Then why wouldn’t I mention Israel’s abuse of Palestinians? Or the USA’s proclivity for blowing up Muslims women and children with drones? Why wouldn’t I bring up slavery and rail about that?

                      Why even have a topic?

                      • James Wherry

                        Because this website only does one thing: attack America, Israel and America’s other allies in the region. This further creates a one-sided narrative resulting in Americans being targeted.

                        As to why you would not mention “USAs proclivity of blowing up Muslims women and children with drones” the reason you would not mention it is that it is because that would be a fairy tale. I don’t think this is a good forum for discussions on the Easter Bunny or the Tooth Fairy, either.

                        • flameaway

                          James,

                          I think you are a bit dotty. Drones kill Muslim women and children. If you think that is a fantasy, then you don’t have a good connection to reality.

                          But that is what I’ve been pointing out to those who are reading this.

                          You can’t seem to stick to the topic, need to skew things to fit your perspective, and ignore evidence counter to your belief system.

                          Like I said you are a bit dotty.

                          🙂

                        • James Wherry

                          We do not target women and children. I do agree that Muslims use women and children as “human shields.” It’s in Hamas’ own literature and its’ the reason Hamas built its command and control bunker directly under a hospital and why Hezbollah built its command and control bunker directly under an apartment complex. That is a distinction with a difference.

                          Your comment about a “proclivity” suggests they were targeted which they were not. You sorta forgot the people that were hiding behind the women and children in your comment. Your incomplete thought made it inaccurate and misleading.

                          Since the West did not have an international military code until the Lieber Code of the 1860’s, I will take my cue from Islamic military law (al-Siyar) and cite al-Shaybani’s works from 1,300 years ago. Muslims have always had laws forbidding the targeting of noncombatants (which were not always followed). Shaybani was asked, “If the infidels took Muslim children and hid behind them and attacked us, can we still shoot arrows at them?” Shaybani replied, “Yes, but you must not AIM for the children.”

                          Again, Muslims recognize the difference.

                        • flameaway

                          Actually we do target women and children. In many cases we know who is actually at the location. We do double taps and signature strikes.

                          None of these show any particular aversion to killing civilians. And in fact, if we can’t hit our targets with this type of tech we shouldn’t be using it in the first place. It’s an ethical disaster, and is a clear example of tyranny.

                          You can keep pointing at Muslims, that’s what most people do. They point fingers and avoid examining themselves.

                          I prefer to focus on the section of the problem where I have some influence. Focusing on someone else’s problems has always struck me as counter-productive.

                          For the record, I don’t support Muslim violence anymore than I do Christina/Western/US violence. But in general I find it a better ethical solution to focus my criticism on our policies. Our opponents aren’t listening to our criticisms anyway. Just like we don’t listen to theirs.

                          {shrugs}

                          The most effective criticisms are usually internal.

                        • James Wherry

                          Ah, then perhaps some day, you’ll join me in my criticism of MintPressNews and its refusal to criticize Shi’ites, Syrians, Iranians and now Russians.

                          I did not say we were not aware of civilians in the vicinity of terrorist targets. I said they used human shields which is a violation of international law. Wars cause collateral damage and kill innocent civilians. As Shaybani suggested, more than a thousand years ago, what matters is your intent and actual target. Under your argument, WWI and WWII are illegal and the U.S. should “just lay down and die,” if we cannot guarantee you “the perfect war.” You are entitled to your views, but the rest of the world simply isn’t buying it.

                          It’s a bit odd that you would use this website to express your views, if it is “internal” self-criticism that you are after. This website already caters to your views. Posting to FoxNews.com is probably your better bet. All you are doing is commiserating with fellow travelers and preaching to the choir (to use 2 clichés).

                          What you end up doing is feeding a dishonest narrative that America does not strive to conform to the law and is “just like everyone else.” This feeds hatred of the United States and convinces others to take up arms and murder Americans.

                          The drones, incidentally, are precision weapons. We are not destroying city blocks, not even in Iraq or Syria. By contrast, Russia has brought in thermoberic bombs which spray flammable liquids over several city blocks and then ignite them. They are currently targeting non-ISIL targets and civilian areas that rose up against Assad. They lied, when they said they were only there to fight against ISIL.

                        • flameaway

                          James,

                          I think I’ll continue to post where I like.

                          The rest of the world? Chomsky does a nice bit of analysis on this usage of “the rest of the world”. What you likely mean is the USA and her Western allies. Or at least the subset of allies that happen to agree with us on any given issue. You do realize that “the rest of the world” is not even close to an accurate assessment, right?

                          The USA supports the idea that drone strikes are legal and the collateral damage done is acceptable. This in spite of the fact that these strikes are not done as acts of war, which makes the definition of collateral damage pretty dicey. Then there are sovereignty issues and question of Constitutionality of the program here in the USA. But then the USA always justifies any action it takes. Just ask the Indian Nations.

                          The USA does not strive to conform to the law unless that law suits the USA. You have a very naive and a-historical view of things.

                        • James Wherry

                          I was referring to all signatories to the Geneva Conventions. That’s pretty much “the rest of the world.” Those conventions are not simply a sword to attack the use of military force, but a shield for those of us in the military, when we conform to the rules on when and how we use force. When a group of terrorists declares and makes war on the US, our strikes in response are appropriate and well within the law.

                          The U.S. does not target non-combatants. These days, I am a Civil Affairs Officer, but spent 14 years as a Judge Advocate, teaching law of war and working to assist in the prosecution of those who violate it. I found time to teach my favorite subject to the senior-year ROTC cadets at Warrior Forge, in 2013. There is no naivete on my part: you simply do not know what you are talking about.

                          But I’m glad you believe that we should keep criticism “internal.” There sure are enough people here posting against Israel and America’s Arab allies and you would never do that.

                          Unless, that is, you have no interest in remaining “internal,” but only in targeting one group or one set of nations. That makes you a man of politics and not a man of principle.

                        • flameaway

                          No sir, I’m sorry, but it is you who do not know what you are talking about.

                          It is a completely naive statement to say that the USA does not target civilians/ non combatants.

                          Since when?

                          The problem with your training is that it is limited and of a distinctly biased nature. A JAG is not a critic of the USA, and a lawyer is not a historian. Though as military officer you no doubt had decent grounding in history, which makes me wonder when you make a blanket statement like the USA does not target non combatants.

                          {shrugs}

                          How much Chomsky have you read? Or Mann? Or Zinn?

                          You will no doubt of have read Marx…

                          But things have moved on.

                          By the way, who are we at war with when we use drone strikes in Pakistan?

                        • James Wherry

                          I don’t seem to recall Chomsky or Marx serving in the military. My grounding as a JAG is thoroughly grounded in history. Your presumption of ignorance only underscores the bias and bigotry of the anti-war movement. The anti-war movement never won with Vietnam through the “power of love.” It was only when it discovered “the power of hatred” that it prevailed.

                          I am reminded of an NPR story about a young Vietnam War veteran who had just come back from Vietnam. His father went to California to pick him up and they went looking for a new suit. A man on the sidewalk recognized the haircut and began shouting at him, “Baby killer! Baby killer!”
                          The man and his father eventually retreated into a clothing store to get away from the man’s ranting. Congratulations: you helped traumatize a generation of men and women who had already seen enough trauma. You helped them into joblessness, homelessness, alcoholism and, oh yes: some lovely Veterans’ cemeteries. You have had to demonize U.S. service members in order to cause that hatred.

                          Your criticism is hypocritical and inconsistent: a law which is not applied equally is not a law at all. It undermines the rule of law. And if my Soldiers are going to be criticized, whatever they do, right or wrong, what incentive do they have to do what is right? Infantry Officers’ intelligence tests are off the charts for being among the most intelligent individuals in the United States, and it’s not a stretch for them to think about this.

                        • flameaway

                          James,

                          For a lawyer you seem remarkably unable to view things dispassionately…

                          Also your entire comment was non responsive and generally intended to divert to personal issues.

                          I served in the military. I read Chomsky and Marx.

                          {shrugs}

                          But thanks for making my point about the biased nature of your education.

                          🙂

                        • James Wherry

                          A man with experience is not at the mercy of a man with an argument. My experience informs me. My education was in a civilian law school, one of the most liberal in America.

                          As to my military education, you suggested that I could not be a critic of the U.S. government. That’s yet more bias and bigotry. When called to Capitol Hill, all four of the TJAGs of the U.S. Armed Forces in 2003 answered that water boarding was and is a human rights abuse. We have proudly stood against it as a Corps for more than 100 years, actually. A lawyer’s job is not to tell his client what he wants to hear, but what he needs to hear. As a JAG, the commander is not my client: the Army is our first client and our job is to ensure that human rights abuses do not occur, and when they do, to actively prosecute them. When Israel uses human shields, they also get roundly condemned by me, and I continue to urge the USA to get rid of its nukes. I am not bound to support any particular policy, only to uphold the law.

                          You mentioned that I was “blaming the Muslims.” I shook hands with Muslims in 2003, who welcomed us and thanked us for getting rid of Saddam. As you might guess, they were Shi’ites. The 250,000 Muslims murdered during Assad’s war of oppression and the 4 million driven from the country are also not to blame for Assad’s crimes. I have criticized the Russians for their use of thermoberic bombs – something on the front page of every paper, today, but not mentioned on this website, which is based out of Tehran. http://news.yahoo.com/russian-jets-hit-syrian-rebels-moscow-says-islamic-131148793.html Again, your assumption is a presumption.

                          I leave you to the anti-war hate groups in America and Europe, then.

                        • flameaway

                          Sorry, you don’t get to make an anecdotal argument.

                          {shrugs}

                          Basic logical fallacy, one of the six formal fallacies. This specific one is called the anecdotal fallacy.

                          As a trained and experienced lawyer from one of the most liberal schools I’d think you’d know that…

                        • James Wherry

                          No, but I went to a pretty good private liberal arts college where I studied all 21 of the main fallacies. Dr. Hill would have first expected me to read and know the basic definition of a fallacy, before I tried using it. An “anecdotal fallacy: is defined as “using a personal experience or an isolated example instead of sound reasoning or compelling evidence.”

                          I have spent 17 years in the U.S. Army and trained thousands of service members and observed others training. I’ve served in combat zones three times and participated in decision making with Army Commanders about when and how to use force. I am not using A personal experience, but a lifetime of experiences. Let me re-phrase what I said earlier to be “a man with many experiences is not at the mercy of a man with an unsupported and false allegations.

                        • flameaway

                          James,

                          {shrugs}

                          “A man with experience is not at the mercy of a man with an argument. My experience informs me.”

                          Using personal experience instead of reason and argument is by definition an anecdotal fallacy. You are claiming that your experience gives you an advantage over a man of argument. That is an obvious anecdotal fallacy — by definition.

                          At this point, I do not find you credible. For a variety of reasons. You are not responsive to direct questions that challenge your statements, you can’t seem to identify the actual topic of the articles you read, and you quite apparently can not identify and avoid using logical fallacies.

                          Anyone can claim vast experience, especially on the internet. The test is whether the rest of what they write matches that claim of experience. Any lawyer should know the logical fallacies and would be trained not to use them in argument.

                          So either you are poorly trained or a liar.

                          Which is it?

                        • James Wherry

                          You have mad a statement that you claim as a “fact.” That is not an argument: it is an allegation. It opens you up to answer facts. You may look on the internet for our stated rules or review our prosecutions and convictions of those who violate them. I simply know you are wrong and not credible.

                          Not every anecdote is a fallacy. If you were to throw out the allegation that I was a bad driver, I know that’s not true and can cite my own experience or my driving record. You are the one with the allegation: the burden rests with you.

                        • flameaway

                          Actually I asked a question, dude. I said, “Why not worry about our allies who are doing the same thing?” That was the beginning of this. Or maybe you meant something else… LOL how would I know? You aren’t very good at being precise in argument… which you should be given your alleged training.

                          An anecdote by itself is not a logical fallacy. Using an anecdote as a means to advance your argument instead of reason, that is a fallacy, again by definition, and, as a matter of fact. Given a fact, there is no reason to “prove” (a misuse of term in context) anything. You stipulated the fact when you cited the definition of an anecdotal fallacy. Just look at your words and the definition of anecdotal fallacy. In other words, you proved yourself wrong.

                          Anyway. You are simply wriggling on the hook you put your self on.

                          Let this be a lesson to you. Claiming credentials without being able to produce those credentials is a flawed strategy. Especially when you do not exhibit the basic skill set that goes along with your claims.

                          🙂

                        • James Wherry

                          No, the beginning of this was my original post which complained of MintPeessNews’ one-sided coverage. Until then I had no idea you existed.

                          As to credentials, you operate under a pseudonym while I work under my own name which other posters tell me is easy to find on Facebook. You have produced no credentials, facts or evidence.

                        • flameaway

                          James,

                          The beginning of our conversation, silly. You’ve been reduced to nitpicking.

                          You haven’t provided credentials, either. Nor can you. Part of the idea of credentials is being able to verify the identity of the person carrying credentials. No way to do that in an valid way in an internet comment section, so it’s pointless to try.

                          There are currently six accounts on Facebook using some variation of the name “James Wherry”. And you have provided no evidence to validate that you are any of them.

                          🙂

                        • James Wherry

                          No, I get to the very essence of the conversation. I originally asked why criticize ONLY our allies. MintPeessNews is a Tehran-based group.

                          You asked why shouldn’t we criticize our allies. That should be the question to ask MintPeessNews. Let me know when they answer you.

                        • flameaway

                          We spend most of our time criticizing our opponents. It’s relatively rare to find an article that is critical of the Saudis especially in the mainstream media of the USA. We much more often see articles critical of Iran, Russia, China, Muslims…

                          LOL

                          So, your original objection is spurious and wrong headed.

                          You should also read back through this conversation and count the number of times you chose to ignore points against you. When you lose a point you simply divert to something else.

                          🙂

                        • James Wherry

                          What evidence do you have that our press has not raised issues about the House of Sa’ud?

                        • flameaway

                          I did not say that our press has not raised issues about the Saudis.

                        • James Wherry

                          “It is relatively rare to find an article that is critical of the Saudis.”

                        • flameaway

                          That is different than “has not raised issues”. You are not being precise.

                          What you are doing is taking the standard sort of position and trying to paint yourself as a rebel.

                          Running about criticizing one’s enemies is what just about everyone does. It makes you the same, not different.

                          It is much more rare to find people standing against the common opinion or criticizing their own group.

                        • flameaway

                          Relatively rare is different than the “press has not raised issues” about the Saudis.

        • Steven Lysen

          James Wherry, why do you stick up for Al Qaeda and ISIS??

          • James Wherry

            Gee: they seem like they are Wahabi’s, whom I have criticized and – wait for it – they ARE.

            Actually, I think of them as Kharajites. If you don’t know what that is, you’re not even involved in the conversation.

            But what I lamented, in my earlier post, is the failure to condemn the Shi’ite satan worshippers.

          • scott

            Idiot

      • VY CanisMajoris

        Iran support of terrorism is something Washington DC decorated to harm Iran for refusing to let U.S. control their Oil and Gas. If Iran is such a bad country like Saudi Arabia and had U.S controlling their resources, you will never hear Washington criticizes them and or even marked them as Axis of Evil.
        Saudi Arabia killed more Americans than Iran could ever dream of.

        • James Wherry

          Let’s see: Washington DC didn’t punish Iran for murdering our Marines in Beirut. It didn’t punish Iran for murdering Col. (USMC) William F. Higgins in Lebanon. America has spent 35 years “turning the other cheek” with Iran to try and gain influence with it.

          Meanwhile, American officers teach the Profession of Arms to Arabian troops.

      • kathy kalb

        Didn’t Clinton take donations from Saudi Arabia! She’s close to them, and her aide is in with Brotherhood of Muslims.

        • SB

          Out of anyone she’s received the most gifts from Saudi royals.

      • peter

        yeah and 911 also, 19 of 20 were Saudis, Bush still went to war FOR them

        • Mahan99

          Correction: 15 out 19 were Saudis…the rest were Pakistani and Egyptians. Don’t let the Saudis get all the credit!

          • peter

            10-4

      • Steve

        (shrugs shoulders) And nobody’s ever going to do a thing about it because some old lady, pushing home a cart full of groceries, might get hurt. We’re doomed.

      • Understand1975 .

        These countries indirectly harm the US and her soldiers but we didn’t do a thing. Syria did not hurt us a bit and we continue to attack them. See how screwed-up our leaders are.

        • jim

          The Saudis want an oil pipeline thru Syria , so they manufacture a civil war to justify U.S. involvement . When we originally aligned ourselves with the Saudis , for the benefit of the corporations , the corporate elite in America forever jeopardized the security of the American people .

      • disqus_g7L56zC6If

        What a shocker. Weren’t 15 of the 19 hijackers that took down the Trade Towers from Saudi Arabia?

      • Dshah

        The Islamic terrorism worldwide is funded by the Saudi’s, Pakistanis and rich middle east Muslim countries. This is not even news because it has been a general knowledge, except for the State Department and Obama. They have chosen to look the other way for no other reasons than the oil commerce. Russia stepping into the Syrian conflict is out of desperation. They see the Islamic terrorism spreading into Russian Cacases throwing the whole region into disarray. Yes, they seem to be acting like keystone copes, shooting before looking, but US and Western Europe are at fault for not doing anything significant to stop ISIS the Islamic beasts from destroying the modern civilization.

        • Jan

          George W was also a big friend with Saudis.

      • JACK

        Let gave Israel this power for Pakistan Palestine and Saudi network destroyer work they can do in one night everything going all right after that

        • Jan

          What English is that?

        • Hassuneh

          Jack try Kindergarten school

      • Sandtiger

        Source of this funding has to stop, only Americans can pressurize Saudis in doing so

      • rushinj

        In India, as a Hindu, if I want to sell a house, a Muslim will pay 30% more for my house. Where is this money coming from?????????

        • Mahan99

          You should be happy you can find a sucker that is willing to pay you 30% more for your home! LOL

        • Hassuneh

          From hard work unlike you that will reap them off. Are you complaining someone gave you 30% more for your house?

        • Kawaii Lord Maou Sama The God

          without toilet

        • Kawaii Lord Maou Sama The God

          without toilet

      • Bazukat

        We need a Bush in the White House. Bush family is friends with Saudis. As long as we have a Bush in the WH, Saudis will not attack America. God bless Saudi Arabia and God Bless the Bush family. Bush men should be made Presidents for life. Go Jeb Bush, destroy Trump who is anti Saudi, anti ISIS, anti muslim, anti illegal mexican and antiFOX News. AllahoAkbar. Pakistan and Saudi Arabia own the US.

        • Jan

          Man, you brain is seriously damaged. You must be from the Bush family.

        • Steve

          Allah and God don’t exist, moron.

          • gofwallace

            you are in for a surprise

            • Steve

              Based on what? The writings of ancient, filthy-bearded, dirty bed sheet-wearing, barbaric, savages who didn’t even know where the sun went at night?

              You’re insane. Get help.

              • gofwallace

                You truly need love in your heart. May the Holy Spirit come in to your life.

                • Steve

                  And I assume the “love in your heart” comes only from being threatened with judgement and punishment? I hate to inform you, but that is not “in your heart”, but rather in your frightened brain. How truly saddening for you. Unlike you, I don’t require your imaginary sky monster’s ultimatums to treat people kindly, who are also “genuinely kind” to others on their own. You are lost. Free yourself.

                  • gofwallace

                    Where does your alleged love come from. You do not recognize the origin. Just as with freedom there comes responsibility. There will be judgement. You are in denial…I am free. Galatians 5:1 ” It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery.” Oh and by the way there are what you call sky monsters [a little different than that] but they do not come from God and they are masters of deceit and cunning. Beware of those wolves [some in “Christian” clothing}. Galatians 5:22-23 says “In contrast, the fruit of the [Holy] Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, generosity, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law.” This is what I strive for. I am not perfect but seek His teachings. You continue to seek what you want. We all have a choice. By calling people names and discounting the essence of their path means you are limiting yourself, very loving BTW. I have studied Hinduism, Buddhism, Islam and most other religions. I have chosen the path of Christianity. Anytime a Christian is reaching out they are hoping that the person finds their way to God. There are only going to be so many times God will reach out. Make sure you take the right path. Many blessings!

                    • Steve

                      What you possess is not faith. It is fear. You are afraid not to believe for fear of punishment. You are not being faithful… you are hedging your bets.

                      You’ve studied nothing. You’ve only searched for your favorite superstitious group and have become brainwashed because you need a baby sitter to guide you through life. You’re afraid of death with no self-awareness thereafter (everyone is). Does your god know that you view your worship of him as purely a “gamble” out of fear, and not out of righteousness or love? What would he think of that? Does he know everything you truly feel? If so, that could be a problem for you.

                      Well, don’t you worry about it. There’s nobody there anyway. Good luck finding reality (and DON’T drink any Kool-Aid if asked).

                      • gofwallace

                        You are the one being deceived

      • Gomer Wumphf

        No surprises – Islam has been at war with the world for 1400 years. It is nothing more than a totalitarian system of conquest and control. There are 1.4 billion Sunnis. If “only” 2% are Jihadists there are 28 million Jihadists.

        • Hassuneh

          where do you get your fake news from? Don’t remember WW 1 And WW 2 were Muslims against the world. You are just a hater

      • x32792

        Saudi money financed 9/11 — We invaded the wrong country.

        • Mahan99

          So true! We should have invaded Pakistan and Saudi Arabia instead of Iraq and Afghanistan!

          • jim

            The Saudis provide massive amounts of money to the Pakistanis .

        • jim

          The American corporate elite have become rich under the Saudis , so they sacrifice a few American soldiers and civilians for their greater good . Kind of sounds like treason .

        • BustedUpGrunt

          Our govt lets those 4 countries play us like fools.
          Those 4 fund terror, and Saudis offering to pay for building 400 new mosques in Europe.
          To spread islam to the west, all 4 countries refuse to take even 1 Syrian refugee.

      • John Ikarus

        That’s why we need energy independence. Elon Musk and Tesla will lead the way.
        Saudi Arabia #GFY

      • Buraydah

        Unfortunately, that’s true and that’s one of many reasons why I think the US has given up on Al-Saud ( I wrote about it recently). US wants to end Al-Saud rule to dry up funding to terrorist organizations coming from Saudi Arabia, and may be divide the country into entities (oil rich east, Hijaz, and Najd, or may be even more). Most of these funding come from the center ‘Najd’ which’s regrettably my homeland. But if Najd is cut off from the oil rich east, then these funds will dry up. In fairness, It’s mostly religious millionaires who provide these funds, not the government.

        • jim

          When the Saudis stop funding the building of Mosques throughout the world than we will know that things have reversed direction . Saudis volunteer to build 200 mosques in Germany for their future militants ( refugees )