The Facts That Neither Side Wants To Admit About Gun Control

Gun control is designed to stop people from killing each other, at least that’s what we are always told.
By @Justinkingnews |
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    (TFC) Washington, DC  – A church was shot up by a lunatic. The US government never lets a tragedy or crisis pass without attempting to find a new way to restrict the American people. So, we can expect a renewed push for gun control. There is a lot of propaganda about gun control. So much so that the truth has been lost.

    The National Rifle Association (NRA) would have you believe that guns stop murders. The gun control lobby would have you believe that gun control reduces murders. They are both wrong. Gun bans have always had the same effect once implemented: none. They do not create a (sustained) period of increased murders, nor do they reduce the rate of homicides. The gun control crowd is currently stomping their feet and screaming “No, it reduces violence! I’ve seen the statistics.” What you probably saw were studies that point to reduced instances of “gun murders,” not murder. The pro-gun crowd is screaming that gun bans cause crime. At least this is grounded in reality. Typically, there is a spike in murders immediately after a ban, but it is short lived.

     

    Gun control is designed to stop people from killing each other, at least that’s what we are always told. Let’s take a look at the data:

    United Kingdom: The UK enacted its handgun ban in 1996. From 1990 until the ban was enacted, the homicide rate fluctuated between 10.9 and 13 homicides per million. After the ban was enacted, homicides trended up until they reached a peak of 18.0 in 2003. Since 2003, which incidentally was about the time the British government flooded the country with 20,000 more cops, the homicide rate has fallen to 11.1 in 2010. In other words, the 15-year experiment in a handgun ban has achieved absolutely nothing.

    Ireland: Ireland banned firearms in 1972. Ireland’s homicide rate was fairly static going all the way back to 1945. In that period, it fluctuated between 0.1 and 0.6 per 100,000 people. Immediately after the ban, the murder rate shot up to 1.6 per 100,000 people in 1975. It then dropped back down to 0.4. It has trended up, reaching 1.4 in 2007.

    Australia: Australia enacted its gun ban in 1996. Murders have basically run flat, seeing only a small spike after the ban and then returning almost immediately to preban numbers. It is currently trending down, but is within the fluctuations exhibited in other nations.

    Plain and simple. Gun control has no significant impact on murder rates. Removing firearms does not typically create massive lawlessness. It is a moot point. These figures aren’t a secret. Why would the governments of these nations want a disarmed populace? For the answer, it is best to look at a nation that has had long-time gun bans that is currently relaxing their laws. Russia recently relaxed its firearms laws. For the first time in recent memory, a Russian citizen can carry a firearm. The prohibited items speak volumes about what a government’s motive behind disarming the population is. Russia has allowed “smoothbore long barrelled guns, pistols, revolvers, and other firearms, as well as Tasers, and devices equipped with teargas.” That’s almost everything, what is still banned? Rifles. So the Russian government has made it clear that the real objective is to remove rifles from civilian hands. The reasoning is pretty clear: you need rifles to overthrow a government.

     

    The Real Reason Gun Control Will Never Work:

    Poverty has a greater correlation to violent crime than access to firearms. Education and poverty are directly linked. In short, we don’t have a gun problem in the United States, we have a cultural problem.Home Depot. Most people in the gun control lobby know nothing about firearms or their construction. Everything you need to manufacture firearms is available at Home Depot. The materials needed to manufacture a 12 gauge shotgun cost about $20. If someone wanted to build a fully automatic Mac-10 style submachine gun, it would probably cost about $60. Every electrician, plumber, and handyman in the country has the materials necessary to manufacture firearms in their shop. The items are completely unregulated. They aren’t like the chemicals necessary to manufacture methamphetamines. How is the battle against that black market working out?

    We have a society that panders to the basest desires and instincts. One of those is violence. We live in a society where women are given dirty looks for breastfeeding in a restaurant, while over their heads on the wall-mounted television plays a movie that graphically depicts someone being tortured to death. We are desensitized to violence, and we have a generation of people that do not have the coping skills necessary to deal with reality.

    Firearms are the Pandora’s Box of the United States. The box is open, it can’t be closed through legislation. If you want to change society, you have to actually change the whole of society. You can’t blame an inanimate object that’s availability has absolutely no correlation to murder and expect to end violence.


    This article (The Facts That Neither Side Wants to Admit About Gun Control) originally appeared on The Fifth Column and was used with permission.
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      • Very relieved Gamerdude

        The other reason is that there is no valid utilitarian argument for infringing on inalienable rights.
        We have the inalienable human right to be armed.

      • Charles Polk

        Studies have shown than gun related homicide and suicide declined at close to twice the rate that they were declining prior to the enactment of strict gun control along with buybacks of guns in Australia. Additionally, there have been no incidences of mass firearm killings since the ban was passed.

        • Very relieved Gamerdude

          The problem with your scenario is that Australia’s gun ownership rate has returned to previous levels and Australia has admitted to RISING gun crime, seeking MORE gun control.

        • jarhead1982

          Funny, how your cl;aims are nothing but propoganda and lies….

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      • Jubal Early

        My wife assassinated a deer with MY truck the other day, that’s her second deer. I had to wait two weeks to get it back. She bagged as many deer as I did last year, she didn’t have a rifle and they willingly committed Seppuku. We have a lot of depressed deer. https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/c0d54a64f625daf5928be0c7b45e6b27a545c05c32087ff4f5920323b332c977.jpg

      • Jubal Early

        Good morning, BG. How are you doing today?

      • jarhead1982

        Hey, lets review how many mass shootings in gun free paradises, enabled by gun control of only the law abiding we have eh!

        Clearly since these gun ban paradises FAILED to stop these psychotic killings, a 100% guaranteed trend, we see blueballs is pathetically spewing lies yet again….

        Location Number killed Date



        Garissa University Kenya 147 4/2/2015

        Pakistan Military school 142 12/15/14

        Paris France 128 11/14/15

        Norway attacks 77 7/22/2011


        Westgate Mall, Nairobi Kenya 67 9/21/2013


        Grozny Chechnya 60 2/5/2000

        Gyeongsagnam-do, South Korea 57 4/27/1982


        Agricultural College, Potiskum Nigeria 50 9/29/2013


        Boipatong S Africa 45 6/17/1992

        Ayotzinapa teaching college, Iguala Mexico 43 September 26, 2014

        Yobe State Boarding School Nigeria 42 2/25/14

        Zhaodong China 42 11/18/1995

        Port Aurthur, Australia 35 4/28/1996

        Marikana S Africa 34 8/16/2012

        VA Tech 33 4/16/2007


        Bacha Khan University Charsadda Pakistan 30 1/20/16

        Cave of the Patriarchs, Hebron Israel 29 2/24/1994


        Bisho, Ciskei, S Africa 29 7/9/1992

        Sandy Hook 28 12/14/2012


        Tunisia 28 6/26/15

        Kampala Uganda 26 6/26/1994

        Offa, Karwa Nigeria 26 12/21/2013

        Mubi Adamawa Nigeria 25 10/3/2012

        Luby’s Cafeteria 24 10/16/1991


        Beijing China 23 9/20/1994

        Splendid Hotel Ougadougou Burkina Faso 23 1/16/2016

        Taizz Yemen 22 3/25/1994

        San Ysidro Massacre 22 7/18/1984

        Tunis Tunisia 21 3/18/2015

        Aureti Uganda 21 4/15/1983

        Igbo Town Hall meeting Adamawa Nigeria 20 
1/7/2012

        Mogadishu Somalia 20 1/22/2016

        Baluchistan Pakistan 20 04/11/2015

        Dhaka Bangladesh 20 7/1/2016

        Johannesburg S Africa 19 3/28/1994

        Dunblane, Scotland 18 3/13/1996


        Erfurt, Germany 18 4/26/2002


        Trincomalee Sri Lanka 17 8/4/2006

        Hungerford, UK 17 8/19/1987


        Cuers, France 17 Sep-95


        Nshii Rwanda 17 11/6/1995

        Kandahar, Afghanistan 16 3/11/2012


        Texas Tower Sniper 16 8/1/1966


        Winnenden, Germany 16 3/11/2009


        Ecole Polytechnique, Montreal 15 12/6/1989


        Columbine High 15 4/20/1999


        Edmond, OK 15 8/20/1986


        Zug, Switzerland 15 9/27/2001


        Meet Al Attar Egypt 15 8/21/2013

        Yueyang & Xima China 15 11/18/2004

        Dayukou China 14 10/26/2001

        Aramoana, New Zealand 14 11/13/1990


        Binghampton, NY 14 4/3/2009

        Luxiol, France 14 Jul-89


        Kamwenge Uganda 14 12/26/1994

        Fort Hood 13 11/5/2009


        Cumbria, England 13 6/2/2010


        Buenos Aires Argentina 13 6/20/1973

        Rio de Janeiro, Brazil 13 4/7/2011

        Velika Ivanca, Serbia 13, 4/8/2013

        Allaipiddy Sri Lanka 13 5/13/2006

        Bahir Dar Ethiopia 12 5/15/2013

        Liuhe & Tonghua China 12 9/24/2006

        Bamako, Mali 12 8/8/2015

        Aurora, CO 12 7/20/2012


        Azerbaijan State Oil Academy 12 4/30/2009


        Paris France 12 1/7/2015

        Emsdetten Germany 11 11/6/2006

        Cologne Germany 11 6/11/1964

        Cape Town SAfrica 11 7/25/1993

        East London S Africa 11 2/9/2002

        Chassarda Pakistan 10 4/5/2015

        McClendon, AL 10 3/10/2009


        Kauhajoki, Finland 10 9/23/2008


        GMAC, FL 10 6/18/1990

        Bait-al-Aqari Yemen 10 5/30/2008


        Red Lake, MN 10 3/21/2005


        Adelaide, Australia 10 9/6/1991

        Lyon France 10, 3/19/2009


        Siakago Kenya 10 11/6/2010

        Pakele & Gogonya Uganda 10 3/9/2013

        Nanterre France 9 2/27/2002

        Port Harcourt Nigeria 9 4/4/2015

        Jerusalem, Israel 9 6/6/2008

        Maiduguri, Nigeria 9 6/8/2013

        Tatarstan Russia 9 5/4/1992

        Uhersky Brod Czechozlovakia 9 2/24/15

        Seapoint S Africa 9 1/20/2003

        Ladysmith S Africa 9 1/20/1992

        Murisuvil Sri Lanka 8 12/20/2000

        Toulouse/Mounteban, France 8 3/11/12 to 3/21/12

        Mor Hungary 8 5/9/2002

        Edmonton Canada 8 12/30/14

        Sana’a, Yemen 8 3/30/1997

        Auchi Nigeria 7 11/27/2012

        Tuusula Finland 7 11/7/2007

        Naples Italy 7 9/18/2009

        Turin Italy 7 10/15/2002

        Gomarankadawala Sri Lanka 6 4/23/2006

        Alphen aan den Rijn Netherlands 6 4/9/2011

        Liege Belgium 6 12/13/2011 (125 wounded)

        Pesalai Sri Lanka 6 6/17/2006

        Belgorod Russia 6 4/22/2013

        Moscow Russia 6 12/11/2012

        Belgrade Serbia 5 7/1/2016

        Berlin Switzerland 5 5/10/2015

        Touluse France 5 3/19/2012

        Moscow Russia 5 11/7/ 2012

        Moscow oblast 5 12/4/2013

        Gangwon Province S Korea 5 6/21/14

        Brussels Belgium 4 5/27/2014

        Tours France 4 10/29/2001

        Espoo Finland 4 12/31/2009

        Carmen de Patagones, Argentina 4 9/28/2004

        Beirut, Lebanon 4 1/25/2007

        GROSSPRIEL, Austria 4 9/18/2013

        Balashinka Russia 4 4/23/2007 (home made pistol)

        Ottawa CA 4 1/22/2016

        Bamrungsart Pondock Scool Thailand 3 Mar 18, 2007

        Nenzig Austria 3 5/22/2016

        Aarhus Denmark 3 4/5/1994

        Liege Belgium 3 12/13/2011

        Rotterdam Netherlands 3 4/11/2009

        Freising Germany 3 2/19/2002

        Geneva Switzerland 3 2/17/2013

        Daillon Switzerland 3 1/3/2013

        SeeJong City S Korea 3 2/25/15

        Gothenburg Sweden 2 3/19/2015

        Dawson College shooting, Quebec Canada 2 9/13/2006

        Café shooting Sydney Australia 2 12/15/14

        Bucharest Romania 2 3/5/2012

        Montessori Daycare Quebec Canada 1, April 15, 2013

        W. R. Myers High School in Taber, Alberta, Canada 1 April 28, 1999

        The world 2,157 dead in 124 incidents = 17.395 dead per

        Why is it the average number of dead in mass shootings in gun free zones in the world, is higher than in the US….hmmmmm

        Funny how this is only the tip of the iceberg for all those mass shootings in all those gun ban paradises eh!

        If we included all the mass attacks in those gun ban paradises where guns were not used…..its rather frightening how VIOLENT those gun ban paradises truly are…….

        Based on you anti gunterds claims guns are the root cause of violence, and those countries have 1/7th the number of guns we do, then why aren’t your incidents and deaths not 1/7th of the US eh MORONS?

        A quick perusal by even the most numerically challenged shows that the US only has 3 of the top 25 shootings. And out of the top 36 we only account for 11 incidents and 17.3% of the dead.

        • dandoodle669

          If you asked anyone who lived in any one of those countries you mentioned, they would laugh at your twisted statistics. All you did is add up all mass shooting incidents that historically happened in the entire world and compare that to umm…. nothing? You proved nothing from your comment. The real question we should be asking is the frequency of shootings. Mass shootigs are so uncommon in those countries that you even had bring in some incidents from the 60s. Meanwhile mass shootings happen multiple times yearly in the US like it’s a normal tradition or something. I live in South Korea, one of countries you mentioned. We had less than 70 public gun deaths in the entire history of our country. That is only a fraction of what happens in the US yearly. You realise how absurd the comparison is?

          • jarhead1982

            Poor child, youre side are the fools who claim gun control of only the law abiding eliminates mass shootings, and by the hard evidence, we see that is a blatant lie, why is that fool?

            Oh thats right, you regressiterds dont address the PSYCHO!

            Lets demonstrate the failure of your fantasy some more, with gun ban paradise CHINA!

            China, a country world reknown for its support of citizens civil rights. The link above indeed has school violence incidents from China, well, at least the ones they allowed to be known about, everyone knows how OPEN a society China has, LOL!

            China 1995-2012 = 395 totsl deaths/injuries

            US 1995-2012 = total deaths/434 injuries

            How is it, that a gun ban country like China, with no guns, can have only a 10% difference in total school injuries, at least that is what has been allowed to be reported to the outside world.

            One would think a country with 100% less firearms would have 100% less school killings/injuries as they have no firearms, based on anti gun freaks beliefs of no guns equals no violence, hmmmmmmm.June 3 1982, Li Chihang 5 dead 43 injured Shamshiupo Hong Kong

            July 10 1995 DongChi 2 dead 16 injured Meihikou China

            Apr 1 1996 WangXiangjun 7 Dead 5 injured Meitian China

            Aug 1998 Lu Xiaoxi 2 dead 15 injured Henan China

            Sep 14 1998 Lin Peiging 23 injured Hejiang County China

            Nov 26 , 2002 Shi Ruoqi 5 killed 2 injured Huaji Cnty China

            Mar 7, 2003 Xie Zhongcai, 24, 8 injured Beihai China

            Sep 11,2004 YangGuozhu ,28 injured Suzhou China

            Sep 20, 2004 Jia Qingyo, 25 injured Ying County China

            Sep 30, 2004 Liu Hongwen 4 dead 12 injured Linwu County China

            Aug 4, 2004 Xu 1 dead, 7 injured Beijing China

            Nov 26, 2004 Yan Yamming 9 dead 3 injured Ruzhou China

            Dec. 3, 2004 Liu Zhigang 12 injured Panshi China

            Oct 12, 2005 Liu Shibing 18 injured Liudong China

            May 8 2006 Bai Ningyang 12 dead 5 injured Shiguan China

            May 24, 2006 Yang Xinlong 35, 2 dead 2 injured Louying China

            Jun 13, 2007 Su Qianxiao 42, 1 dead 3 inured Chiling China

            Jul 20, 2007 Quyang Songde 19 injured Foshan China

            Sept 13, 2007 Kuang Xi 28, 1 dead 5 injured Hengyang China

            Mar 3 2009, Xu Ximei 40, 2 dead 4 injured Mazhan China

            March 23, 2010 Zheng Minsheng The Nanping school massacre 8 killed 5 wounded

            Apr 13, 2010 Yang Jiaqin 40, 2 dead 5 injured Xichang China

            Apr 28, 2010 Chen Kangbing Hongfu Primary School 17 injured Leihzhou China

            Apr 29, 2010 Yuan Zhangxuan 17 injured Dangchang County China

            Apr 29, 2010 Xu Yuyuan 32 injured Taixing China

            Apr 30, 2010 WangYonglai 45, 1 dead 6 injured Weifang China

            May 12, 2010 Wu Huanming, 48, 10 killed 11 injured Hanzhong, Shaanxi

            August 3 2010 Fang Jiantang 3 killed 16 injured Zibo, Shandong province China

            Aug 29, 2011 woman 30 8 injured Shanghai China

            Sept 14, 2011 WangHongbin, 4 dead 2 injured Gongyi China

            Aug 2, 2012 Xinhua teenager killed 9 people and wounded 4-

            Sept 21, 2012 Guangxi. Wu Yechang An ax-wielding man killed 3 wounded 13

            Dec 14, 2012 Min Yongiun Chenpeng China 24 injured

            Dec 16, 2012 Suthat Wannasarn 3 dead

            March 8 2013 Xianjiang, 4 killed 11 injured at shopping mall

            May 22, 2013 6 students & teacher wounded in a cleaver attack after school

            June 7, 2013, BEIJING — Chinese man set a fire on a commuter bus Xiamen, leaving 47 people dead including himself, Chinese state media reported. 34 injured.

            June 20, 2013 Another accidental explosion, hmmm, really?

            June 28, 2013 Chinese officials say 36 people were killed after a fight broke out during a police investigation of suspected criminals in the latest act of violence in the restive northwest province of Xinjiang

            July 29, 2013 Shenzen Province 3 dead 3 injured

            July 2013 Henan Province 5 dead, 3 injured

            July 2013 Guangxi 2 dead

            July 31, 2013 Hong Kong 11 injured

            Aug 26 2013 Beijing 1 dead 3 wounded, all knives, hmm!

            Sept 23, 2013 Hunan Province, Changsha Hospital 3 injured

            November 6, 2013 china-explosions-

            July29, 2014 Xinjiang Dozens killed and wounded

            Sept 1, 2014 China Dongfang Primary School in Hubei province, 3 killed 6 wounded

            Nov 20, 2014, Bedaihe China, Military Clinic, 7 dead

            See fool, its not the tool, but then recognizing this IRREFUTABLE FACT, would require you had a functioning, human brain above 0 IQ, youre screwed!

          • jarhead1982

            China, a country world reknown for its support of citizens civil rights. The link above indeed has school violence incidents from China, well, at least the ones they allowed to be known about, everyone knows how OPEN a society China has, LOL!

            China 1995-2012 = 395 totsl deaths/injuries

            US 1995-2012 = total deaths/434 injuries

            How is it, that a gun ban country like China, with no guns, can have only a 10% difference in total school injuries, at least that is what has been allowed to be reported to the outside world.

            One would think a country with 100% less firearms would have 100% less school killings/injuries as they have no firearms, based on anti gun freaks beliefs of no guns equals no violence, hmmmmmmm.June 3 1982, Li Chihang 5 dead 43 injured Shamshiupo Hong Kong

            July 10 1995 DongChi 2 dead 16 injured Meihikou China

            Apr 1 1996 WangXiangjun 7 Dead 5 injured Meitian China

            Aug 1998 Lu Xiaoxi 2 dead 15 injured Henan China

            Sep 14 1998 Lin Peiging 23 injured Hejiang County China

            Nov 26 , 2002 Shi Ruoqi 5 killed 2 injured Huaji Cnty China

            Mar 7, 2003 Xie Zhongcai, 24, 8 injured Beihai China

            Sep 11,2004 YangGuozhu ,28 injured Suzhou China

            Sep 20, 2004 Jia Qingyo, 25 injured Ying County China

            Sep 30, 2004 Liu Hongwen 4 dead 12 injured Linwu County China

            Aug 4, 2004 Xu 1 dead, 7 injured Beijing China

            Nov 26, 2004 Yan Yamming 9 dead 3 injured Ruzhou China

            Dec. 3, 2004 Liu Zhigang 12 injured Panshi China

            Oct 12, 2005 Liu Shibing 18 injured Liudong China

            May 8 2006 Bai Ningyang 12 dead 5 injured Shiguan China

            May 24, 2006 Yang Xinlong 35, 2 dead 2 injured Louying China

            Jun 13, 2007 Su Qianxiao 42, 1 dead 3 inured Chiling China

            Jul 20, 2007 Quyang Songde 19 injured Foshan China

            Sept 13, 2007 Kuang Xi 28, 1 dead 5 injured Hengyang China

            Mar 3 2009, Xu Ximei 40, 2 dead 4 injured Mazhan China

            March 23, 2010 Zheng Minsheng The Nanping school massacre 8 killed 5 wounded

            Apr 13, 2010 Yang Jiaqin 40, 2 dead 5 injured Xichang China

            Apr 28, 2010 Chen Kangbing Hongfu Primary School 17 injured Leihzhou China

            Apr 29, 2010 Yuan Zhangxuan 17 injured Dangchang County China

            Apr 29, 2010 Xu Yuyuan 32 injured Taixing China

            Apr 30, 2010 WangYonglai 45, 1 dead 6 injured Weifang China

            May 12, 2010 Wu Huanming, 48, 10 killed 11 injured Hanzhong, Shaanxi

            August 3 2010 Fang Jiantang 3 killed 16 injured Zibo, Shandong province China

            Aug 29, 2011 woman 30 8 injured Shanghai China

            Sept 14, 2011 WangHongbin, 4 dead 2 injured Gongyi China

            Aug 2, 2012 Xinhua teenager killed 9 people and wounded 4-

            Sept 21, 2012 Guangxi. Wu Yechang An ax-wielding man killed 3 wounded 13

            Dec 14, 2012 Min Yongiun Chenpeng China 24 injured

            Dec 16, 2012 Suthat Wannasarn 3 dead

            March 8 2013 Xianjiang, 4 killed 11 injured at shopping mall

            May 22, 2013 6 students & teacher wounded in a cleaver attack after school

            June 7, 2013, BEIJING — Chinese man set a fire on a commuter bus Xiamen, leaving 47 people dead including himself, Chinese state media reported. 34 injured.

            June 20, 2013 Another accidental explosion, hmmm, really?

            June 28, 2013 Chinese officials say 36 people were killed after a fight broke out during a police investigation of suspected criminals in the latest act of violence in the restive northwest province of Xinjiang

            July 29, 2013 Shenzen Province 3 dead 3 injured

            July 2013 Henan Province 5 dead, 3 injured

            July 2013 Guangxi 2 dead

            July 31, 2013 Hong Kong 11 injured

            Aug 26 2013 Beijing 1 dead 3 wounded, all knives, hmm!

            Sept 23, 2013 Hunan Province, Changsha Hospital 3 injured

            November 6, 2013 china-explosions-

            July29, 2014 Xinjiang Dozens killed and wounded

            Sept 1, 2014 China Dongfang Primary School in Hubei province, 3 killed 6 wounded

            Nov 20, 2014, Bedaihe China, Military Clinic, 7 dead

            So reality you fool, isnt the tool, its the psycho beeiotch like you, fool!

          • jarhead1982

            http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/asiapacific/dozens-killed-and-injured/1288018.html

            12/3/2014 man kills 2 w shotgun Liaoning province

            Thought no violent crime happened in China as they have no guns in law abiding civilians hands?

            http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/rare-case-gun-violence-china-leaves-dead-19465864#.UccxiRbvbzJ

            http://news.yahoo.com/china-probes-xinjiang-connection-tiananmen-car-deaths-031219752.html

            They killed themselves and two tourists on Monday in the square, the heart of China’s power structure and the focal point of the mass 1989 pro-democracy demonstrations brutally crushed by the military.

            http://www.3news.co.nz/Reports-say-1-injured-in-north-China-explosions/tabid/417/articleID/320293/Default.aspx#.Unm0TKXvZuY

            http://www.thejournal.ie/weapons-destroyed-china-illegal-gun-485097-Jun2012/

            100k guns confiscated

            http://news.yahoo.com/china-police-bust-online-gun-ring-seize-1-160110879.html

            2015 MORE GUNS SEIZED IN CHINA

            http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2014-03/28/content_17388541.htm

            http://www.ibtimes.com/china-seizes-10000-illegal-guns-weapons-raid-gun-culture-becomes-more-popular-1571395

            http://www.atimes.com/atimes/China/LF24Ad02.html

            http://armedselfdefense.blogspot.com/2012/02/communist-china-calls-for-stricter.html

            During a 2010 crackdown, 15,000 guns, 1.84 million bullets, 300,000 imitation guns, and 170,000 illegal knives were seized. Over 2,000 people were arrested. About $150,000 in reward money was given to those turning in gun owners.

            These crackdowns have been done sporadically in the past, but a concerted effort to rid the country of privately held firearms has been going on in earnest annually since the 2008 Olympics were held there. One six-month campaign in 2008 netted 79,000 guns, replica guns, and 5.75 million rounds of ammunition. Recently, about 9,000 illegal guns were seized by police in just two Chinese provinces last November.

            http://www.wantinews.com/news-8665345-Guangdong-police-seized-firearms-Project-115-arrests-142-people-arrested.html

          • jarhead1982

            Yeah horrible about all those mass shootings and attacks in countries that already had STRICT gun control of only the law abiding….and they let schiite like that happen…why is that fool..

            http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2013/mar/15/importance-gun-reform/allcomments/#ixzz2NqVC4tY4

            Actually it was after the Hungerford massacre (August of 1987, 16 dead, 15 wounded) that the first Firearms Act (of 1988) was passed in order to prevent future massacres. Next came the Monkseaton shootings in April of 1989 (not called a massacre because only 1 person died (but 14 were wounded)). Then there was the Dunblane massacre (March 1996, 17 dead, 15 wounded) leading to the banning of handguns, in order to prevent future massacres. Then came the Cumbria massacre (June of 2010, 12 dead, 11 injured).

            • Krambo

              Holy hell…you’re a special kind of stupid. I can see why you’re so scared of gun control, though. Keeping the guns out of the hands of the mentally disturbed will be a priority which means your guns would be first on the chopping block.

              GTFO with your dishonest BS.

              • jarhead1982

                And we see the typikal anti gun regressiterd wailing in impotent rage going waaaaaah data not twue, no proof, just acting like a 5yr old bully

                • Krambo

                  Is the snowflake projecting? Judging from your little tantrums on this site the past few months, I’d say the mentally disturbed diagnosis is spot-on. Amazing how someone could type so much and say so little!

                  Stay in your circle-jerk gun nuts. You wander out of your safe space and into any academic setting…you wouldn’t make it out alive.

                  • jarhead1982

                    ROTFLMFAO, projecting what would happen to you if you left yo crack ho mommas basement we see…..so pardon us if we dont listen to any advice or commands from regressiterdkuntfairies like you peewee…..

                  • jarhead1982

                    Oh and making it out alive, which is a threat, then yeah I would, see I am armed, you puxxies are not….and youre too fkkng stupid to catch me carrying all those years in gun free zones, disregarding unconstitutional laws

            • Jonny Hainsworth

              So 14 years between these two mass shootings when the USA struggles to get to 14 days….. Fantastic example that mate well done.

          • jarhead1982

            Whoopsie, horrible armed self defense actually works eh fool…

            http://www.breitbart.com/texas/2016/10/04/texas-store-employee-uses-ak-47-stop-4-armed-robbers/

            Man no wonder the criminals ran, THEY WERE OUTGUNNED

            http://www.lasvegasnow.com/news/report-son-shot-home-invasion-suspects-with-ak47

            7/1/15 AK47 used to defend their home….hmmmm

            http://www.journalgazette.net/article/20140522/LOCAL07/305229920/1002/LOCAL

            5/23/14 Man thought AR15 didn’t work as a home defense weapon eh morons?

            http://www.wral.com/homeowner-shoots-intruder-in-vance-county-break-in/13638825/

            5/12/14 Thought AR15 were never used for home defense eh!

            http://www.nbcmiami.com/news/Person-Shot-and-Killed-in-Davie-Home-Invasion-238597771.html

            Man that AK47 sure came in handy eh!

            http://www.guns.com/acquitted-self-defense-shooter-gets-hit-with-civil-suit-video.html

            http://www.thedaily.com/page/2012/02/05/020512-news-detroit-vigilantes-1-5/

            http://www.thetimesherald.com/viewart/20130430/NEWS05/304300028/Iraq-War-vet-thwarts-break-Michigan-gas-station

            Darn, here is another who used an AR15, imagine that!

            http://www.philly.com/philly/news/local/Elkins_Park_man_killed_after_forcing_his_way_into_apartment.html

            Jasper Brisbon, 32, wandered up to a couple late Friday at the Lynnewood Apartments as the pair spoke outside their unit. Brisbon, they told police, appeared to be on drugs. He stared at the pair for several minutes before the couple decided to go into their apartment, police said.

            But as they entered their home Brisbon jumped between them, forcing his way in.

            The male of the couple ran to get a semi-automatic AR-15 rifle and insisted Brisbon leave. Brisbon refused. Instead, as the man yelled “Stop! Stop Stop!” Brisbon moved menacingly toward the man, police said.

            The man fired a shot striking Brisbon in the torso and immediately called 911, police said.

            http://www.myfoxdetroit.com/story/21202112/wild-shootout-at-inkster-tax-business-caught-on-camera

            http://wjbk.images.worldnow.com/images/21202112_BG1.jpg

            Feb 14, 2013 Security guard with AR-15 exchanges gun fire with 2 robbers.

            AR-15 Makes an excellent home defense weapon!

            http://how-i-did-it.org/drywall/index.html

            and version 2: http://how-i-did-it.org/drywall2/

            Shotgun

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C29mEJFFIvo&feature=player_embedded

            .

            The story below unfortunately ends with the homeowner arrested possibly because of the choice of using an AK to defend he and his family from a gang. Oh darn, the DA refused to press charges, isn’t that too bad!

            http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2010/09/07/long-island-man-arrested-for-defending-home-with-ak-47/

            Sept 7 2010, Long Island NY.

            Wow, didn’t the FBI UCR 2011 data show of the 390 justifiable homicides by police 33 were by rifles? Care to answer how many of those were AR15 pattern rifles?

            Care to prove the same percentage used is different with civilian justifiable homicides so lets see your govt. data to prove it is as no one gives any credibility to an REMF drugged out fantasies.

            Hey don’t forget that kid in Rochester NY 1/24/13 who used his AR to fend off a couple burglars, no shots fired.

            http://chronicle.augusta.com/news/crime-courts/2012-08-09/gun-shop-owner-kills-suspected-burglar-injures-two-others?v=1344521241

            http://www.wistv.com/story/19236842/gun-shop-owner-shoots-kills-man-during-attempted-robbery

            30 rounds, 7 hit on 3 bad guys!

            Or that 15 yr old kid in Houston a couple years ago June 29th 2010 who shot a burglar with his dads AR15 to protect his 12 yr old sister. http://www.khou.com/news/crime/Burglary-suspect-shot-by-15-year-old-son-of-deputy-97430719.html

            How many pictures did you see of the people along the Gulf Coast like my in-laws to be patrolling their properties with SKS & AR15 carbines to keep looters at bay after Ike hit in 2008, media doesn’t like publishing such things.

            How about those same situation and pictures from Katrina in 2005?

            Hey did those National Guard troops have AR style rifles, well yes they did!

            Oct 20, 1997 Richard Garriot (Creator of Worlds of Warcraft, uber irch) stops intruder with a warning shot from an UZI!

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_rz2wBYin4 Feb 17, 2009 AZ 3-4 bad guys pick the wrong house, and a guy with an AR15

            Nov 12 1990, Harry Beckwith’s Guns in Alachua County, Florida

            Sunbelt Arms in Decatur, GA. November 1982

            Sunday, February 24, 1984, approximately 2 PM. Gary Fadden, 26, and his lovely 22 year old fiancee are driving from a birthday party in Martinsburg, WV and during a road rage attack by known felons, defended himself and his girlfriend with a Ruger AC 556. I think there was a thread here on THR about it.

            Walt Whitman 1966, citizens retrieved their rifles and started shooting back.

            http://theyoungcons.com/new-blog/2013/6/27/see-what-happens-when-an-armed-carjacker-encounters-an-armed-citizen

          • jarhead1982

            Heck even a blind woman knows what you dont, why is that fool…

            http://www.newson6.com/story/2

            TULSA, Oklahoma –

            Thieves are targeting people who live in west Tulsa; some are storm victims who are losing what the recent tornado didn’t take.

            At least five neighbors and a church have been hit. Now, some of the victims are so frustrated they’re ready to take matters into their own hands.

            Twylia Smock is 92 years old and has six decades of good memories in her west Tulsa home.

            Even though she’s legally blind, she wasn’t going to let burglars come in and ruin things.

            “All of a sudden, someone is kicking and beating on my back door, trying to get in,” Smock said.

            She had just locked the back door and put a board up when she heard the thieves trying to break into her home.

            That’s when she went for her pistol.

            “I got up close to the door and said, ‘Come on in, boys! The police won’t take you away, the morgue will. I’ll take care of you,’” Smock told them.

            Within seconds they ran off, but Smock was still angry over what they had done.

            “If I could get a hold of the ones who got my friends up there, I’d take them out,” she said.

          • jarhead1982

            Holy smokes fool, amazing how more blind people defend themselves eh, and if it saves JUST ONE LIFE, ARMED SELF DEFENSE IS JUSTIFIABLE!

            http://www.wesh.com/Blind-Man-Shoots-Home-Intruder-In-Neck/-/11788876/13186196/-/hulho8/-/index.html

            Oct 27, 2007 GAINESVILLE, Fla. —A Gainesville man’s lack of sight didn’t stop him from defending his home from an intruder.

            According to police, Cevaughn Curtis Jr., 28, broke into Arthur Williams’ house in Gainesville at around 3 a.m.

            Curtis, police said, knocked on the door, asked to be let inside but Williams refused. Curtis then tried to force his way into the home.

            The 75-year-old retired taxi dispatcher, who’s been legally blind for the past 61 years, opened fire on the would-be-thief who kicked down his door, police said.

            Police said Williams shot Curtis, who tried to flee but collapsed on the front porch, inthe left side of the neck. He was taken to a hospital in stable condition.

            Police said Curtis was charged with burglary of an occupied residence and battery on a person over the age of 65.

            Officials are praising Williams for protecting himself.

          • jarhead1982

            1,080 deaths/injuries in 65 gun free zone mass shootings since 1982 avg. 16.615 per incident Google Mother Jones Mass shootings as they surprisingly have the details!

            91 deaths/injuries in 36 incidents in gun free zones since 1991 where armed self defense occurred, avg. 2.56 per incident!

            12/17/91 Shoneys Alliston AL


            10/1/97 Pearl High Pearl MS


            4/24/98 Edinsborough PA


            1/16/02 Appalachian Law School VA


            11/20/05 Tacoma WA


            2/12/07 Trolley Mall UT


            12/9/07 New Life Springs CO


            6/6/08 Winnemuca NV


            1/25/08 Makor High School, Jerusalem


            6/11/09 Holocaust Memorial D.C.


            5/4/09 College Station GA


            6/11/09 Golden Market Richmond VA


            1/4/10 Federal Court House Las Vegas NV

            
5/27/10 AT&T store New York Mills NY


            8/7/10 The Wall Jerusalem 


            8/30/10 Sullivan High TN


            2/28/12 Colorado Springs CO, Urological Associates office

            3/25/12 Southside Freewill Baptist Church Boiling Springs SC

            4/24/12 New Destiny Church Aurora CO


            8/15/12 Family Research Council D.C.


            12/11/12 Clackamas Mall OR


            12/19/12 San Antonio TX


            1/1/13 NightClub Sacramento CA


            1/31/13 Middle School Atlanta GA


            2/1/13 High School Detroit MI


            10/20/13 Party-Glendale AZ

            12/13/13 Arapahoe HIghSchool CO

            1/11/14 Portland OR Strip Club

            5/1/2014 Austin TX Construction Yard

            6/3/14 Reynolds High School Troutdale Oregon

            6/14/14 East Peoria IL High School Reunion

            7/25/14 Darby PA Mercy Fitzgerald Wellness center

            11/16/14 Club Khaos, Elpaso TX

            7/24/14 Doctor Stopr Murderer at Philadelphia Mercy Fitzgerald Hospital

            5/25/15 Philadelphia Barbershop shooting

            4/29/15 Uber Driver Hero in Chicago

            5/31/15 Conyers Georgia Magnet Bottle Shop shooting

            30 plus years trying it the anti gun nuts way isn’t working, and armed self defense had it occurred in those 65 gun free zone incidents where no defense occurred, could have prevented up to 893 deaths/injuries!

            16.615/2.528 = 7.1 times more people killed in a mass shooting where no armed resistance occurs!

            We challenge the anti gun nuts to go to the families of those 1,080 victims, look them in they eye, and say you supported disarming their family members when the data clearly shows armed self defense could have saved up to 893 people from being injured!

            My money bet is they don’t make it out of the 3rd home before being re-educated Gulag style!

          • jarhead1982

            So lets see armed resistance in schools:

            Pearl High School MS 1997 2 murdered 7 injured (no legal carry on school grounds, whoops)

            Appalachian Law School 2002 3 murdered 3 injured (no legal carry on school grounds, whoops)

            College Station GA 2009 1 injured (no legal carry on school grounds or campus housing, whoops)

            Sullivan High School TN 2010 0 injured (no legal carry on school grounds whoops)

            Middle School Atlanta GA 2013 1 injured (no legal carry on school grounds whoops)

            High School Detorit MI 2013 0 injured (no legal carry on school grounds unless open carry, he wasnt open carrying because of then AG Granholms 2002 ruling, whoops)

            Arapaho High School CO 2013 1 killed (no legal carry on school grounds, whoops)

            “shooter entered the school armed with a shotgun, a machete, three Molotov cocktails, and 125 rounds of ammunition.[9][10] He requested to see school librarian Tracy Murphy”

            Reynolds High School OR 2014 1 dead (whoops, no legal carry on this campus or school district whoops)

            Now we can truthfully say the average number of kids shot and killed/injured in a mass shooting (4 injured) at a school are 363 killed and injured /30 mass shootings since 1990 = 12.1

            So how many kids were injured and killed in those incidents above…

            18/7 = 2.57

            12.1/2.57 = 4.71 times higher bodycount in schools where no armed resistance occurred.

            By the way, how much ammunition and weaponry did those shooters have when stopped (example arapahoe high shooter)

            But we understand, in the finite incident of mass shooting you prefer 363 dead and wounded in 30 mass shootings than 77 dead and wounded.

            We expect you to go to the families of the 286 dead and wounded children that could have been saved and explain how your immoral blood thirsty heathen demokrat position is better.

            Now, post those 286 accidental shootings in the 19 states for the last 30 years more-on…..we havent all millenia…in fact WE DARE YOU COWARD

          • jarhead1982

            Well the 1 mil police are proven to be 11 times more likely to shoot you accidentally in a collateral damage incident than are the 135 mil law abiding gun owners or the 11 mil plus of those who carry concealed.

            Anti gun nuts have squealed BLOOD WILL FLOW every time a law was rescinded and a right restored….

            41 times states, reinstated concealed carry, the blood didn’t flow!

            35 times, states reinstated concealed carry in eateries serving alcohol the blood didn’t flow!

            26 times states reinstated SYG outside ones own home, the blood didn’t flow!

            24 times, states reinstated no duty to retreat within ones own home the blood didn’t flow!

            19 states w 300+ school districts reinstated concealed/open carry over 10 years the blood didn’t flow!

            308 different times anti gun nuts have squealed the blood would flow from law abiding gun owners, yet violent crime has dropped -51.47%, murders with a gun have dropped -54.09% all while there has been an increase of 42% of guns in law abiding civilians hands!

            So either start posting all those thousands of collateral shootings you are so worried about or be labeled a chicken little squawking the sky is falling the sky is falling as no one believed chicken little, and no one believes you and your 308 failed predictions of violence sunshine!

            http://investigations.nbcnews….

            Here are the 19 states that allow adults to carry loaded weapons onto school grounds with few or minor conditions:

            Alabama (which bans possessing a weapon on school grounds only if the carrier has “intent to do bodily harm”) 4.8 mil

            California (with approval of the superintendent) 38 mil

            Connecticut (with approval of “school officials”) 3.5 mil

            Hawaii (no specific law) 1.4 mil

            Idaho (with school trustees’ approval) 1.6 mil

            Iowa (with “authorization”) 3.1 mil

            Kentucky (with school board approval) 4.4 mil

            Massachusetts (with approval of the school board or principal) 6.5 mil

            Minnesota (with approval from the school principal) 5.4 mil

            Mississippi (with school board approval) 3 mil

            Montana (with school trustees’ permission) 1.02 mil

            New Hampshire (ban applies only to pupils, not adults) 1.3 mil

            New Jersey (with approval from the school’s “governing officer”) 8.6 mil

            New York (with the school’s approval) 19.5 mil

            Oregon (with school board approval) 3.8 mil

            Rhode Island (with a state concealed weapons permit) 1.1 mil

            Texas (with the school’s permission) 27 mil

            Utah (with approval of the “responsible school administrator”) 2.9 mil

            Wyoming (as long as it’s not concealed) .6 mil

            137.52 mil population

          • jarhead1982

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L

            Oh dang, thought only America had rampage killings……do tell, 85 attacks (more than the US) 764 dead, thousands injured!

            198 murders in Latin America (24 incidents) (US 83 incidents) 550 dead US…hmmmm they are not including all those innocents killed by cartels in Mexico, you know where over 70,000 have died since 2006, including 43 students killed and burned this year……

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L

            Dang, there are 127 mass killings in Asia alone, how is that anti gutnerds, thats more than the US by far, over 1,100 deaths alone….

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L

            91 rampage attacks…

            612 + dead….thought gun ban paradises didnt have any murders…… thats more attacks and killings than the US….hmmmmm!

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L

            124 mass attacks…

            Over 1,1261 killed…….man those gun ban paradises sure are violent

          • jarhead1982

            http://oag.ca.gov/sites/all/files/agweb/pdfs/cjsc/publications/candd/cd13/cd13.pdf?

            Here are the summary totals for felony arrests in california 2008-2013…

            2,707,083 felony arrests and based on national data, 26.8% of those would be for violent crimes with a gun!

            2,707,083 x .268 = 725,498 who you anti gunterds claim are lawful gun owners prior to thier committing the felony crime they got arrested for…….

            Still waiting for you anti gunterd trolls to demonstrate much less prove those 725,498 were lawful gun owners…….

            Do we need to hold your hand and walk you to each crime so you can prove you arent lying…………

          • jarhead1982

            http://www.activeresponsetraining.net/resistance-to-violent-crime-what-does-the-research-show

            Am I more likely to be hurt or killed if I resist a criminal attacker?

            The research is contradictory on this question. The short answer is that it depends on the type of crime and what method the victim uses to resist. Resistance to crimes of violence is more common than most people realize. Overall 71.4% of victims of violent crime took some type of self-protective measure. Such measures include screaming, running, physically fighting the attacker, and using a weapon, among other things (12). Resisting a crime by using a firearm generally reduces your chance of being hurt or killed, especially for women. A study by Gary Kleck found that the probability of serious injury in a criminal attack is two and a half times greater for women offering no resistance than women resisting with a firearm. Men are also safer if they resist with a firearm than if they do not resist at all, but the difference is smaller (1.5 times less likely to be injured) (13).

            Unarmed resistance, on the other hand, does positively correlate with an increased rate of injury in most crimes. One study showed that, during a retail robbery, unarmed resisting store clerks were 50 times more likely to be killed than clerks who did not resist (14). Victims resisting robberies are 20% more likely to be injured than victims who comply with the robbers’ demands. Eighty-six percent of resisting victims are injured as compared to sixty-six percent of compliant victims (15). Presence of a weapon by the criminal does not influence injury rates. Injury rates are the same between victims attacked with weapons and victims attacked by unarmed criminals (26%), although victims attacked by armed criminals were about 3.5 times more likely to suffer serious injuries (16).

          • jarhead1982

            http://economics.wm.edu/wp/cwm_wp158.pdf

            Funny how the study of murder rates in Europe shows no link to policing or strict gun control

          • jarhead1982

            http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/james-carstensen/czech-govt-placing-weapons-hands-citizens-best-defense-against-terror

            By James Carstensen | January 3, 2017 | 9:31 PM EST

            (AP Photo/Seth Wenig, File)

            Berlin (CNSNews.com) – The Czech Republic has resisted calls by the European Union’s executive Commission to tighten gun controls in response to terror attacks, forcing the E.C. to alter its proposals, allowing for the private ownership of semi-automatic weapons.

            The Czech interior ministry now wants to loosen its own laws a step further, proposing a constitutional amendment on Monday that would allow its citizens to bear legally-held firearms against the perpetrators of terrorist attacks, such as those in Nice or Berlin, the Czech news agency ctk reported.

            The government says that putting weapons into the hands of citizens is the best defense against terror.

            The move comes despite the European Commission’s ongoing advocacy for stricter gun control laws in Europe.

            The Czech parliament blocked the E.C.’s earlier attempt to introduce tighter European gun laws, after the attack in Nice.

            While the E.U. Firearms Directive and Czech laws already prohibited private ownership of fully automatic weapons, the commission’s initial campaign aimed to further narrow the E.U. regulations to rule out semi-automatic and self-loading weapons – which make up about half of firearm ownership in the Czech Republic – and limit magazine sizes to ten rounds.

            The Czech parliament rejected the proposal, arguing that such tougher gun laws would not be the solution as terror attackers only use illegally-held weapons. The government derided the E.C.’s plans as “legally ambiguous and in some cases excessive.”

            The E.C. was last month finally able to reach agreement by all member states, including the Czechs, after allowing exceptions for hunters and gun collectors and only banning a select few semi-automatic weapons.

            “Mass shootings and terrorist attacks in Europe have highlighted the dangers posed by certain firearms circulating across the E.U.,” it said in a statement, but also expressed regret at the concessions it had to make, such as not banning all semi-automatic weapons or limiting magazines to ten rounds.

            Despite the E.U.’s concerns, the latest Czech proposal argues that armed citizens would be the best defense against terror attacks.

            In a statement on Monday, Interior Minister Milan Chovanec said that amending the constitution would reduce the chances of attacks by enabling “active and rapid defense.”

            Citizens should be given the right to use firearms to defend their “life, health and property” and contribute to “ensuring the internal order, security and territorial integrity” of the country, he said.

            As December’s truck attack in Berlin demonstrated, security forces have not been able to guarantee the full prevention of attacks. In light of the threat, the Czech ministry argued that the proposed amendment would help to prevent the loss of lives by allowing civilians to contribute to “internal order and security.”

            The proposal is scheduled to be considered in March. To pass, it must be agreed upon by at least three-fifths of all deputies and three-fifths of all senators present.

            The exact details of the interior ministry’s proposal are still to be worked out, and for now simply indicates that it is subject to “terms and details prescribed by law.”

            However, it appears likely to expand the range of “genuine reasons” for possession of a firearm to include those of “national security” – and thus, theoretically, allow anyone to own a gun.

            Gun ownership is currently legal in the Czech Republic. As per E.U. regulations, firearms are required to be registered, and Czech law also requires a license and a genuine reason to possess a firearm, such as for hunting or personal protection.

            Gun holders are also required to pass a background check which considers factors such as mental health and criminal history.

            Unlike gun ownership, there are no laws explicitly covering civilian use of a firearm in self-defense, nor in regards to terror attacks specifically. Such an incident would fall under general criminal provisions regarding self-defense, which may allow the use of a gun, but only in cases of absolute necessity (including the threat of “imminent” attack).

            Self-defense case law in the Czech Republic has applied only to violent assaults such as rape and robberies, and not to terrorism. It is not clear yet how the constitutional amendment would, if at all, build on or deviate from this established law.

            The country was shaken by a mass shooting in 2015, when 63-year-old Zdenk Ková fired on a group of 20 people, killing 8. Ková, had a gun holder’s license despite a history of misdemeanors and concerns over his mental state.

            The incident prompted calls for a re-examination of Czech gun laws, but they are still considered among the most lax in the E.U., partly due to the fact semi-automatic weapon possession is allowed.

            According to data collated by Gunpolicy.org, a firearm injury prevention NGO, an estimated 7.6 percent of Czech’s 10 million residents legally hold weapons, with 810,046 registered privately owned firearms in the country.

          • jarhead1982

            http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Peace/2014/11/19/Russia-Legalizes-Carry-of-Guns-for-Self-Defense

            Oh wait, the Russians are legalizing concealed carry, what a ya know!

          • jarhead1982

            Such a consistent trend.

            http : // news . yahoo . com / aaron-alexis-navy-yard-video-175705579 . html

            8:16 a.m. – Alexis shot the first victim in the 4 West area of Building #197.

            8:17 a.m. – First 911 call is received from the fourth floor of Building #197.

            8:20 a.m. – Alexis left the fourth floor using the stairs and entered the third floor.

            8:28 a.m. – Alexis appeared on the first floor.

            8:57 a.m. – Alexis returned to the third floor.

            9:25 a.m. – Law enforcement shoot and kill Alexis on the third floor.

            The time the police responds to engagement distance of the shooter is 21 minutes at Sandyhook, 12 minutes on average.

            How you going to get police there any quicker?

            See if you cant even prove your claims mathematically, how do you expect sane people to believe your claim?

            The kids that escaped hid from Lanza and ran out afterwards.

            There is no physical evidence lanzas rifle jammed.

            There is no physcial evidence he fumbled his reloads.

            If the kids had escaped while he was reloading or ran out the door of the room several students would have been shot and in the hallway, you have evidence they were, no?

            Hollywood fiction has it that everyone running from an active shooter in a group will all die, reality is some will get away, so again, where are the dead kids in the hallway?

            No the facts and the simple math do not agree with the antis position.

            But hey, we see how Loughner overloaded a 31 rnd magazine, broke the return spring, and the gun failed to load into battery and he fumbled his reload when he did this, allowing intended victims time enough to attack.

            FT Hood shooter, had practised his tactical reload and was witnessed to be very accurate to 100ft. 3 Army personnel attacked him unarmed, 2 died, 1 is crippled for life.

            Holmes had a quantity of 2, 100 round Beta-c-mags, tempermental and prone to jam unless loaded and lubricated properly. Holmes jammed the rifle on the 1st 100 rnd mag at the 30th round.

            This left 170 rounds of .223 unfired as he couldnt clear his weapon. Think there could have been an additional 6-7 deaths and 15-20 injuries if he could have fired the rounds eh?

            Reality is laws cant be based on luck or experince.

            The normal result of someone unarmed attacking an active shooter is they get blown away.

            You go right ahead and support smaller, ultra reliable magazine capacities so unlikely to jam as you make such untrained killers inherently more efficient at killing. Such are the unintended consequences of those ignorant on firearms and firearms tactics and reality!

          • jarhead1982

            Shall we review how magazine capacity doesn’t affect didley, yeah, lets.

            It will be looked at as a time study, we who set manufacturing processes up do lots of these studies to accurately predict labor, material usages, predictions and savings.

            Response times by the police range from most times 10 to 12 minutes from first call.

            Witnesses identified shots were fired at 9:30 am when announcements were being

            made.

            http://www.shac.ct.gov/SHAC_Final_Report_3-6-2015.pdf

            Sandyhook final report

            http://www.politicalswagger.com/sandy-hook-police-audio-timeline/

            The first call was 9:35:44 to police dispatch.

            In Sandy Hook, the first police officer arrived on site at 9:38:38!

            09:40:24 (Dispatch) Cars responding, shooters apparently still shooting in the office area, 12 Dickenson Drive. Last shots heard–Lanza killing himself!

            09:51:51 We have a suspect down, 21 minutes after the shooting started!

            Time line:

            Adam Lanza tried to open a locked door, couldn’t, so he shot the glass out to gain entry upon which time the principal and school psychiatrist & vice principal came from the office and confronted Lanza who then killed two and wounded one. Total elapsed time, approximately 1 minute.

            Then Lanza walked down the hallway to the 1st kinder-garden classroom about 20 ft away, max time to do so, 15 seconds, where he killed 1 teacher & 14 students.

            Lanza then walked across the hall 25 ft away, max time 15 seconds.

            Where upon he killed another teacher and 6 students.

            Professional shooter can change a magazine in 1.4 seconds, someone familiar with the weapon, which Adam was, can do so in 3.0 seconds.

            Since we know that he fired 154 rounds, using 30 round
magazines, and frequently changed them out after 10-15 rounds just as a veteran video gamer does, that is max 10 magazine changes x 3.0 seconds = 30 seconds.



            Cyclic rate for the semi-auto rifle/pistol is 60 rounds per minute so 1 shot for every pull of the trigger per second = 154 seconds.



            Total times 



            Office killing 1min=60secs


            Hallway walk to 1st room = 15 seconds


            Hallway walk to 2nd room = 15 seconds


            Shootings =154 seconds


            Reloads = 30 seconds



            264 seconds total = 4.4 minutes



            Now if Lanza had been limited to 10 round magazines as anti’s
claim would limit the ease of killing, at 3 seconds reloads, needs say 20 mag’s based on his reloading habit magazines = 19 reloads x 3 seconds = 57seconds.



            That is an additional 27 seconds to the total = 4.85
minutes total. Oh wait, Lanza had 16 minutes to do all this from the time of the call to dispatch, in actuality he had 21 minutes as that was when police were close enough to engage Lanza and confirm he had offed himself. Explain again what an additional 27 seconds would have done, oh that’s right, not one dang thing!

            Oh what is this, a sheriff in IN, Ken Campbell, Boone County (just north of Indianapolis) proving exactly what is stated above both with pistol, rifle, and the Biden solution!

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2Upjn5DR0o&feature=player_detailpage

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1bu7Y8iwXA&feature=player_embedded

            Reality is, limiting a shooter to 10 round magazines doesn’t prevent jack schiite and you cant prove different!

            Harris & Keibold had 10 rnd magazines at Columbine, didn’t slow them down any.

            Cho had 10-15 rnd magazines (standard capacity) at VA Tech, didn’t slow him down.

          • jarhead1982

            http://www.ct.gov/csao/lib/csao/Sandy_Hook_Final_Report.pdf

            http://nypost.com/2013/11/25/chilling-photos-of-sandy-hook-gunmans-lair-released/

            Oh wait, WHICH pictures show that Ms Lanza had a gun safe , cheap Stack-On safe, but still a lockable safe, hmmmmmm.

          • jarhead1982

            http://www.ijreview.com/2014/06/146537-everytown-map-74-school-shootings-since-newtown-goes-viral-33-questionable-entries/

            Everytown for Gun Safety is an activist organization against law-abiding citizens carrying firearms. It was founded by Michael Bloomberg and Shannon Watts, and as The Blaze reports, headlines that 1.37 school shootings have occurred “every single week in the U.S. since the deadly 2012 shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary in Newtown, Connecticut.”

            No surprise, when it came out with its list of ‘every school shooting since Sandy Hook,’ it crammed every conceivable case onto it so as to make it appear like armed criminals were attacking our schools every week.

            Huffington Post editor Mark Gongloff mapped Everytown’s data, and inevitably, the figure went viral. So viral, in fact, that news anchor Shepard Smith was repeatedly citing the “74 shootings” figure on his Fox News program Tuesday afternoon. In any event, here is the map: So, using Sandy Hook as the starting point and running until today’s tragic Oregon school shooting, what do these datapoints represent? Well, it turns out that they represent all sorts of things. They turn out to be “assaults, homicides, suicides, and accidental shootings” that happen “inside a school building or on school or campus grounds.”

            Let’s just note for the record here that 95%+ of these areas are in so-called “gun-free zones” before moving on. In other words, they have perfect gun control regimes in theory.

            Anyway, journalist Charles C. Johnson wanted a closer look at the cases that Everytown was portraying as “school shootings.” This is what he found, 97% of everytown has a whoores claims to be fabricated, typikal anti gun fairies

          • jarhead1982

            More data and analysis stomping the schiite out of anti gun regressiterds lies…

            http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2524731

            Debunking the FBI’s manipulated statistics….
            Debunking the FBI’s manipulated statistics upon which the anti gun perverts base their dishonest spew about mass shootings increasing….

            But what the anti gun perverts refuse to admit is that the number of murders by criminals with multiple injuries and deaths is a rather steady rate/percentage of the total no matter what year in the last 4 decades and youre simply not intelligent enoguh to disprove that irrefutable fact, otherwise you would have already posted said evidence…

            http://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/2014/september/fbi-releases-study-on-active-shooter-incidents/pdfs/a-study-of-active-shooter-incidents-in-the-u.s.-between-2000-and-2013?utm_campaign=email-Immediate&utm_content=359251

            While “mass shootings” are generally considered to be those with four of more murder victims, the FBI’s report is mostly concerned with crimes involving between zero and three such victims. Of the 160 crimes FBI considered, 45 (28 percent) had four or more murder victims, 19 (12 percent) had three, 29 (18 percent) had two, 36 (23 percent) had one, and 31 (19 percent) had none. Additionally, only 98 (61 percent) had four or more fatal and non-fatal victims combined.

            GASP, thats what the dishonest anti gun perverts have done, moved the goal posts to fit their agenda and lies…

            Also, as the FBI notes, its report doesn’t include crimes committed without firearms. Anti-gun groups would like the public to believe that all mass murders are committed with firearms, but many such crimes are committed by other means. For example, USA Today has reported that between 2006 and 2013, there were at least 61 mass murders, with at least 286 victims, which were committed with knives or bludgeons, or by arson, drowning, strangulation or suffocation. By comparison, for the same period, the FBI’s report includes only 34 mass murders, with 272 victims, which were committed with firearms.

            Additionally, the FBI notes, “shootings that resulted from gang or drug violence–pervasive, long-tracked, criminal acts that could also affect the public–were not included in this study.” Thus, the FBI ignored at least 116 felony-related murders with four or more victims between 2000 and 2013, resulting in the murders of at least 498 people.

            Moreover, the FBI didn’t include mass shootings that took place between 1949 and 1999, a decision that would affect a long-term trend line for such crimes. And, curiously, it didn’t even include the April 9, 2002, murders of five people in Toms River, New Jersey, by a police officer using a police department submachinegun and pistol, and the October 3, 2002, murders of five people in Montgomery County, Maryland, by the so-called “D.C. Snipers.”

            However, the FBI report makes three things clear. First, contrary to what anti-gun groups are trying to get the American people to believe, murders that have four or more victims, whether committed with firearms or by other means, are the exception, not the rule. Second, the recent trend in such crimes has been skewed by a very small number of crimes with high casualty counts, committed by deranged individuals and, in one case, a person with jihadist sympathies.

            Third, the FBI recognizes that private citizens faced with an “active shooter” can sometimes successfully intervene to bring the crime to a halt. “Of the 160 incidents, at least 107 (66.9%) ended before police arrived and could engage the shooter, either because a citizen intervened, the shooter fled, or the shooter committed suicide or was killed by someone at the scene,” the FBI said.

            Presumably, today’s New York Times would reject the FBI’s conclusion, and instead advise those who are under attack to cower, beg for mercy, or run, leaving other victims to fend for themselves. Of course, that’s not what the Times did in 1863, and it’s not always the best advice today.

          • jarhead1982

            http://reason.com/blog/2013/01/24/making-sense-of-mass-shooting-statistics

            http://reason.com/blog/2014/09/24/active-shooters

            James Alan Fox, a noted anti gun criminologist states in an August 2012 editorial in the Boston Globe; “No Increase in Mass shootings”, that based on data extracted from official police reports to the FBI, shows annual incident, offender and victim tallies for gun homicides in which at least four people were murdered. Over the thirty-year time frame, an average of about 20 mass murders have occurred annually in the United States with an average death toll of about 100 per year.

            Which agrees with Grant Duwe, a criminologist with the Minnesota Department of Corrections who has written a history of mass murders in America, said that while mass shootings rose between the 1960s and the 1990s, they actually dropped in the 2000s. And mass killings actually reached their peak in 1929, according to his data. He estimates that there were 32 in the 1980s, 42 in the 1990s and 26 in the first decade of the century.

            But hey, how can that be, when since you antis enacted the gun free victim disarmament zones where you progressives prefer children be killed freely, killings in said zones have quadrupled, with 61 of the last 62 occurring in said zones. (Gifford was shot in a parking lot).

            Based on actual facts, the only place such killings are increasing, is in your pet gun free victim disarmament zones where progressives prefer children are killed freely.

            Since the intellectually challenged antis believe in causality, you implemented the law and the killings increased, so where is all your remorse as all their blood is on your hands.

          • jarhead1982

            Mental illness

            Grant Duwe, director of research and evaluation at the Minnesota Department of Corrections, compiled his own numbers for mass public shootings, finding 160 cases between 1915-2013.

            Of those, 97 involved shooters who had either been diagnosed with a serious mental illness, or showed signs of one.

            “The 61% is actually a minimum estimate,” said Duwe, who is also author of the book “Mass Murder in the United States: A History.”

            “The further back we go in time, we just don’t have information as to whether or not they had a mental illness, though in all likelihood, based on all the evidence we have, they most likely did,” he said.

            Duwe found the most common illness associated with mass public shootings was paranoid schizophrenia, a type of schizophrenia in which the person has delusions of being plotted against or persecuted.

            In recent memory, Loughner — the man who killed six people and wounded former U.S. Rep. Gabrielle Giffords in Arizona — was diagnosed with paranoid schizophrenia.

            He is serving a life sentence without the possibility of parole after pleading guilty last year to 19 charges in exchange for the government not seeking the death penalty.

            Mental Illness

            Holmes, who was convicted July 16 of killing 12 people at the movie theater in Colorado, has been diagnosed with schizotypal personality disorder, his court-appointed psychiatrist said in testimony. Holmes has pleaded not guilty by reason of insanity.

            John Russell Houser, who police say shot 11 people — killing two — in a Louisiana movie theater on July 24 before killing himself, was treated for mental health issues in 2008 and 2009, according to the sheriff of Russell County, Alabama.

            Duwe was careful to differentiate between correlation and causation.

            “This is not to say that someone that has a serious mental illness is going to go commit a mass public shooting, but what it does suggest is that it is a risk factor,” he said.

            http://www.tampabay.com/news/criminologist-says-mass-shootings-show-no-pattern-or-increase/1266381

          • jarhead1982

            No dandummy you go get the BATF agents who didnt have the time to pursue the rejected sale of a firearm to Adam Lanza and have them explain why they didnt do their job.

            You can do the same thing to the families and parents of the victims of Harris & Keibold who killed at Columbine as they rejected one or both of the boys, and then faile dto catch the person who straw bought the firearms, and the BATF did NOTHING.

            You can go pull Cho’s psychiatrist in front of all the familys of the VA Tech shootings and ask why he didn’t process Cho onto the do not buy list.

            You can put Loughner in front of ALL his victims and the sheriff to have the sheriff explain why he refused 4 or 5 times to press charges for Loughner making death threats prior to the Giffords shooting.

            How about those 9 officers who were prosecuted for dereliction of duty and their careers ended because the review showed they shuffled an obviously mentally ill officer through the system, when procedures were in place to handle such a mentally ill person.

            How about dragging Holmes psychiatrist and the risk school board members in front of all the Aurora victims families and as them why they didnt do their job either and report Holmes to authorities?

            Yes, lets bring those families out and let them interrogate those who failed to do their jobs and act to prevent all those violent crimes.

            Then we will have YOU stand in front of them and justify your implementing the gun free victim zones of your fantasy and explain to them why it is better to have such a soft target available to the crazies as you have created in your gun free victim disarmament zones.

            Have you explain how 62 of the last 63 events like that occurred in GUN FREE VICTIM DISARMAMENT ZONES.

            Yes lets get the TRUTH OUT THERE and see how you anti gun regressiterds handle it!

          • jarhead1982

            Yeah horrible how gun bans and gun free zones only work to create a 7 times higher body count, but then anti gun regressiterds like you are a bunch of blood thirsty heathens to begin with

          • Mike Breen

            As you can see to the response to your reply to jarhead, the man is a lunatic. I got fed up of trying to count the numbers of posts he made in response to your post. That’s when you know he’s rattled, he can sit and cut and paste with a post every 20 seconds for 6 hours straight, and start again in the morning when he wakes. A complete and utter nut job, and a nut job with a gun at that. He is America’s gun problem personified.

            • jarhead1982

              As you can see to the insanity and illicit narcotic laced response to your replies, all anti gun advocates who are wanted criminals for pedophilic crimes in the US and fled to the UK are certfied lunatics. I got fed up of trying to count the numbers of posts the pedo has made in response to all the govt. data proving it a liar. That’s when you know he’s rattled, he can sit and cut and paste with a post every 20 seconds for 6 hours straight, and start again in the morning when he wakes. A complete and utter nut job, and a nut job with a gun at that. He is the UK’s 5 times higher violent crime problem personified.

        • Mike Breen

          You have a mass shooting every day on average.

          • jarhead1982

            Proven lie, but then youre simply too insane to comprehend reality from your continued illicit narcotic influence and abuse upon your goat syphillis rotted brain

          • jarhead1982

            Poor fool, claiming crimnal activity is a mass shooting…..thats not the criteria cretin, try another lie

            • Ciaran Carroll

              “claiming criminal activity is a mass shooting”. Well, a mass shooting is a crime, or is it just me? Why do more Americans get shot more than anyone else then? Australia haven’t had a mass shooting since 1996

              • jarhead1982

                Now what is hilarious is that when one reviews the Australian gun laws from the early 1970’s on, we see their gun laws as RESTRICTIVE TO BEGIN WITH!

                How then did port author and all those attacks occur with strict gun control to begin with eh….

                https://www.legislation.qld.gov.au/LEGISLTN/CURRENT/W/WeaponsA90.pdf

                http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/wa/consol_reg/fr1974211/

                http://www.legislation.sa.gov.au/LZ/C/A/FIREARMS%20ACT%201977/CURRENT/1977.26.UN.PDF

                A Transcript of the Police Interview With Martin Bryant” http : // loveforlife . com . au / content / 07 / 10 / 30 / transcript-police-interview-martin-bryant

                Funny, how even before 1996, you needed a LICENSE to purchase a firearm, yet the Port Arthur killer didnt have one, yet that is somehow the LAW ABIDING GUN OWNERS FAULT AGAIN EH?

              • jarhead1982

                Amazing how many mass attacks have occured in Australia when they had strict commifornia style gun control from the 1970’s onward…

                Even more hilarious that it is just luck that the several mass attacks didnt turn into high body counts since then, but hey, dont let facts get in the way of your lies ho…

                http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_mass_murders

                • Cullin-La-Ringo massacre – Horatio Wills and his traveling party were killed by Aborigines at Cullin-La-Ringo Station in Queensland in 1860; police, native police and civilians killed 60 to 70 Aborigines in response.

                • George David Silva murdered six members of the Ching family at Alligator Creek near Mackay, Queensland in 1911.

                • Coniston massacre – Over 50 Aboriginal people were killed in the last Aboriginal massacre in 1928. The motive was revenge for the killing of dingo hunter Frederick Brooks.

                • Hope Forest massacre – Clifford Cecil Bartholomew shot dead ten members of his family in Hope Forest near Adelaide, September 1971.[2]

                • Whiskey Au Go Go fire – Fire lit in club killed 15

                • 22 September 1976 – William Robert Wilson – Killed two people and wounded four on Boundary Street, Spring Hill,Brisbane. Wilson took a .22 calibre rifle and 500 rounds of ammunition to Boundary Street around 12.30 pm and began shooting randomly. He shot and killed Monika Schleus, aged 17, as she crossed Boundary Street. Wilson shot and wounded Donald William Hepburn Galloway, who was also crossing the street. Proceeding to a milk bar, Wilson shot and killed Marianne Kalatzis, aged 18, and wounded Mavis Ethel Sanders and Virginia Hollidge. In the neighbouring shop he shot and wounded Quinto Alberti. Wilson was captured by police around 4:15 pm at a suburban house where Wilson was holding a man and four young women hostage. Wilson served three years in a mental hospital. On being found fit for trial, he was sentenced in 1980 to two life sentences for the murders and 10 years each, concurrently, for the four attempted murders. He pleaded guilty to all charges.[3]

                • Russell Street Bombing – 23 wounded when a car bomb ignites outside a Police Building. One of the wounded, a female police officer, died later of injuries from the explosion.

                • Douglas Crabbe – Truck driver deliberately crashed his truck into a hotel, killing five and badly wounding 16.

                • Sydney Hilton bombing – Two garbage men were killed and 12 passers-by were injured by a bomb planted in a garbage bin outside the Sydney Hilton Hotel in 1978. A police officer who was wounded died later.

                • Milperra massacre – Two biker gangs, the Comanchero and the Bandidos, engaged in a shoot-out in a hotel car park, killing 7 people in 1984, including a bystander. Only one defendant was acquitted on the murder charges. Oh wait, these were criminals, with guns, who weren’t licensed eh, hmmmmm!

                • Joseph Schwab – 1987, Schwab shot dead 5 people in and around the Kimberley region in Western Australia before being shot dead by police.[4]

                • Hoddle Street massacre – Armed with two rifles and a shotgun, Julian Knight shot 7 people dead and wounded another 19 in 1987 before surrendering to authorities.

                • Queen Street massacre – Armed with a sawn-off rifle, Frank Vitkovic roamed the Australia Post building killing 8 and wounding 5, also in 1987. When the weapon was finally wrestled from him, he committed suicide by jumping out of a nearby window.

                • Surry Hills massacre – Paul Anthony Evers killed 5 people with a 12-gauge shotgun at a public housing precinct in Surry Hills in 1990 before surrendering to police.[5]

                • Strathfield massacre – In 1991 Wade Frankum killed 7 people and wounded 6 others with a large knife and an SKSbefore turning the gun on himself when he realised he could not escape.

                • Central Coast Massacre – Malcolm Baker killed 6 people and injured another with a shotgun in 1992 before being arrested by police.

                • Port Arthur massacre – In 1996, armed with two semi-automatic rifles, Martin Bryant killed 35 people around Port Arthur and wounded 21 before being caught by police the next day following an overnight siege.

                • Childers Palace Fire – In June 2000, drifter and con-artist Robert Long started a fire at the Childers Palace backpackers hostel that killed 15 people.

                • Monash University shooting – In October 2002, Huan Yun Xiang, a student, shot his classmates and teacher, killing two and injuring five.

                • June 18, 2007, in which a lone gunman killed a man who had come to the aid of an assault victim and seriously wounded two others in Melbourne’s central business district during morning rush hour

                • Lin family murders 2009

                • Churchill Fire – 10 confirmed deaths due to a deliberately lit fire. The fire was lit on 7th of February 2009.

                • Quakers Hill Nursing Home Fire – 10 confirmed and as many as 21 people may have died as a result of a deliberately lit fire in a Quakers Hill nursing home. The fire was lit early on 18th of November 2011.

                • Salamander Bay, Australia April 3, 2003 The shooter threw petrol bombs before opening fire, seriously wounding 2 students

                • 2011 Hectorville siege

                A mass shooting that took place on Friday, April 29, 2011, in Hectorville, South Australia began after a 39-year-old male, Donato Anthony Corbo, went on a shooting rampage, killing three people and wounding a child and two police officers with a shotgun stolen from a family member, before being arrested by Special Operations police after an eight-hour seige.[27]

                • Adelaide, Australia A May 7, 2012 Year eight student took a revolver on school grounds, firing shots, nobody was injured.

                • 2014 – Hunt family murders: 5 dead

                • 2014 – Logan shooting: 3 dead

                • Sydney Australia Dec 15 2014, local thuggsta terrorsit wannabe kills 2 injures others….The gunman, Man Monis, obtained an illegal sawn off Remington 870 and did not hold a firearms license. Monis also had an extensive criminal history and was on parole at the time for accessory to murdertp://www.smh.com.au/nsw/shooting-outside-police-headquarters-in-parramatta-20151002-gk07tb.html

                • 10/2/2015 Parramatta Australia

                Banksia Grove shooting 2016 http://www.news.com.au/national/crime/police-hunt-gunman-after-triple-shooting-in-perth/news-story/d6172cc940a6f2e86d4121ac986a3564

                Ingleburn, Sydney 2016

                https://www.rt.com/news/334750-sydney-factory-shooting-victims/ Guy had an AK47, A REAL ONE, OH WAIT, THOSE ARE BANNED IN AUSTRALIA….HMMMMM

              • jarhead1982

                Man that there bkie gangs sure are violent…oh wait, they dont obey the laws, typikal..

                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0GPPxGX8pdA

                Amazing how full autos, home made, are showing up in criminals hands these days!

                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUTdtXE4Rj8

                Hells Angels, Outlaws went to war in the 1990’s in Australia also

                http://content.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1888288,00.html

                Bikie gang killings 2009

                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MMzKEXW48Q

                Bike gang wars

                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZO5Eh0QBGTQ

                More bikie gang violence

                http://news.motorbiker.org/blogs.nsf/dx/australia-escalating-biker-gang-war.htm

                Imagine that, fighting over turf to sell drugs!

                http://www.reuters.com/article/2007/05/11/idUSSYD1644

                Bikie gangs 2007, violence escalating again, imagine that, thought you mateys took all the law abiding subjects guns, oh wait, you didn’t take the criminals, what morons!

                http://johnrlott.blogspot.com/2012/08/some-notes-on-claims-about-australias.html?m=1

                http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/sydney-gun-crime

                http://www.news.com.au/national/nsw-act/two-men-blasted-by-shotguns-in-driveby-attack-in-bankstown-three-arrested/story-fnii5s3x-1226754623560

                http://www.ballinaadvocate.com.au/news/new-plan-unveil-tackle-out-of-control-gun-violence/1992835/

              • jarhead1982

                But then since the anti gun phaggits like mukey “breen” pedo puffer, an ex pat wanted for pedophile crimes in the US, infers criminals, you know, those 10 categories of people already banned from having a gun as per USC 18 Sec 922, we find that anti gun phaggits love to move the goal posts on the definitions so as to portray a lie and engender fear based on their lies….

                But when the FBI uses a criteria of:

                1) Occurs in a designated gun free zone
                2) 4 or more people dead, not including shooter

                We see that your retort is of the ignorant negative IQ sock puppet type…..

        • Charles Polk

          I notice that Australia has had 0 fire arms mass murders since 1996.mobile.nytimes.com/2016/06/14/upshot/compare-these-gun-death-rates-the-us-is-in-a-different-world

          • jarhead1982
          • jarhead1982

            Its only a matter of time till it happens again, see thats what armed psychotics depend on, disarmed victims….which everyone in Australia was made a disarmed victim by people like you…

            A history of mass killings in Australia even when they had gun control….

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_mass_murders

            • Cullin-La-Ringo massacre – Horatio Wills and his traveling party were killed by Aborigines at Cullin-La-Ringo Station in Queensland in 1860; police, native police and civilians killed 60 to 70 Aborigines in response.

            • George David Silva murdered six members of the Ching family at Alligator Creek near Mackay, Queensland in 1911.

            • Coniston massacre – Over 50 Aboriginal people were killed in the last Aboriginal massacre in 1928. The motive was revenge for the killing of dingo hunter Frederick Brooks.

            • Hope Forest massacre – Clifford Cecil Bartholomew shot dead ten members of his family in Hope Forest near Adelaide, September 1971.[2]

            • Whiskey Au Go Go fire – Fire lit in club killed 15

            • 22 September 1976 – William Robert Wilson – Killed two people and wounded four on Boundary Street, Spring Hill,Brisbane. Wilson took a .22 calibre rifle and 500 rounds of ammunition to Boundary Street around 12.30 pm and began shooting randomly. He shot and killed Monika Schleus, aged 17, as she crossed Boundary Street. Wilson shot and wounded Donald William Hepburn Galloway, who was also crossing the street. Proceeding to a milk bar, Wilson shot and killed Marianne Kalatzis, aged 18, and wounded Mavis Ethel Sanders and Virginia Hollidge. In the neighbouring shop he shot and wounded Quinto Alberti. Wilson was captured by police around 4:15 pm at a suburban house where Wilson was holding a man and four young women hostage. Wilson served three years in a mental hospital. On being found fit for trial, he was sentenced in 1980 to two life sentences for the murders and 10 years each, concurrently, for the four attempted murders. He pleaded guilty to all charges.[3]

            • Russell Street Bombing – 23 wounded when a car bomb ignites outside a Police Building. One of the wounded, a female police officer, died later of injuries from the explosion.

            • Douglas Crabbe – Truck driver deliberately crashed his truck into a hotel, killing five and badly wounding 16.

            • Sydney Hilton bombing – Two garbage men were killed and 12 passers-by were injured by a bomb planted in a garbage bin outside the Sydney Hilton Hotel in 1978. A police officer who was wounded died later.

            • Milperra massacre – Two biker gangs, the Comanchero and the Bandidos, engaged in a shoot-out in a hotel car park, killing 7 people in 1984, including a bystander. Only one defendant was acquitted on the murder charges. Oh wait, these were criminals, with guns, who weren’t licensed eh, hmmmmm!

            • Joseph Schwab – 1987, Schwab shot dead 5 people in and around the Kimberley region in Western Australia before being shot dead by police.[4]

            • Hoddle Street massacre – Armed with two rifles and a shotgun, Julian Knight shot 7 people dead and wounded another 19 in 1987 before surrendering to authorities.

            • Queen Street massacre – Armed with a sawn-off rifle, Frank Vitkovic roamed the Australia Post building killing 8 and wounding 5, also in 1987. When the weapon was finally wrestled from him, he committed suicide by jumping out of a nearby window.

            • Surry Hills massacre – Paul Anthony Evers killed 5 people with a 12-gauge shotgun at a public housing precinct in Surry Hills in 1990 before surrendering to police.[5]

            • Strathfield massacre – In 1991 Wade Frankum killed 7 people and wounded 6 others with a large knife and an SKSbefore turning the gun on himself when he realised he could not escape.

            • Central Coast Massacre – Malcolm Baker killed 6 people and injured another with a shotgun in 1992 before being arrested by police.

            • Port Arthur massacre – In 1996, armed with two semi-automatic rifles, Martin Bryant killed 35 people around Port Arthur and wounded 21 before being caught by police the next day following an overnight siege.

            • Childers Palace Fire – In June 2000, drifter and con-artist Robert Long started a fire at the Childers Palace backpackers hostel that killed 15 people.

            • Monash University shooting – In October 2002, Huan Yun Xiang, a student, shot his classmates and teacher, killing two and injuring five.

            • June 18, 2007, in which a lone gunman killed a man who had come to the aid of an assault victim and seriously wounded two others in Melbourne’s central business district during morning rush hour

            • Lin family murders 2009

            • Churchill Fire – 10 confirmed deaths due to a deliberately lit fire. The fire was lit on 7th of February 2009.

            • Quakers Hill Nursing Home Fire – 10 confirmed and as many as 21 people may have died as a result of a deliberately lit fire in a Quakers Hill nursing home. The fire was lit early on 18th of November 2011.

            • Salamander Bay, Australia April 3, 2003 The shooter threw petrol bombs before opening fire, seriously wounding 2 students

            • 2011 Hectorville siege

            A mass shooting that took place on Friday, April 29, 2011, in Hectorville, South Australia began after a 39-year-old male, Donato Anthony Corbo, went on a shooting rampage, killing three people and wounding a child and two police officers with a shotgun stolen from a family member, before being arrested by Special Operations police after an eight-hour seige.[27]

            • Adelaide, Australia A May 7, 2012 Year eight student took a revolver on school grounds, firing shots, nobody was injured.

            • 2014 – Hunt family murders: 5 dead

            • 2014 – Logan shooting: 3 dead

            • Sydney Australia Dec 15 2014, local thuggsta terrorsit wannabe kills 2 injures others….The gunman, Man Monis, obtained an illegal sawn off Remington 870 and did not hold a firearms license. Monis also had an extensive criminal history and was on parole at the time for accessory to murdertp://www.smh.com.au/nsw/shooting-outside-police-headquarters-in-parramatta-20151002-gk07tb.html

            • 10/2/2015 Parramatta Australia

            Banksia Grove shooting 2016 http://www.news.com.au/national/crime/police-hunt-gunman-after-triple-shooting-in-perth/news-story/d6172cc940a6f2e86d4121ac986a3564

            Ingleburn, Sydney 2016

            https://www.rt.com/news/334750-sydney-factory-shooting-victims/ Guy had an AK47, A REAL ONE, OH WAIT, THOSE ARE BANNED IN AUSTRALIA….HMMMMM

      • Mike Breen

        “In other words, the 15 year experiment in banning handguns has achieved absolutely nothing”.

        Reading that, I can safely dismiss the author as dishonest or ignorant or both. To take what was effectively a tweak to already very strict UK laws that effected virtually nobody and made no difference on the streets to anybody at all, and then use that to suggest nothing would change in the USA if similar laws were introduced is pro gun dishonesty at it’s finest.

        • jarhead1982

          So you admit the law targeted only the law abiding and did nothing to reduce violence, so noted stalin luver

      • Kareem O’Wheat

        “”Poverty has a greater correlation to violent crime than access to
        firearms. Education and poverty are directly linked. In short, we don’t
        have a gun problem in the United States, we have a cultural problem.”

        Thomas Sowell nuked that argument 30 years ago.
        Back to the drawing board.

        • snoopybaron

          “Thomas Sowell nuked that argument 30 years ago.”

          Citation needed…

          • Kareem O’Wheat

            Pick up a book.

            • snoopybaron

              Last chance liar… Pony up the reference, or go crawl back under your rock.

            • snoopybaron

              It’s not my job to support your argument. It’s Yours.

              Hitchens’s razor – ”That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence”

      • Elfje Day

        Body cam is the best solution https://forceprovideo.com/

      • Faithskylar

        “Poverty has a greater correlation to violent crime than access to firearms. Education and poverty are directly linked. In short, we don’t have a gun problem in the United States, we have a cultural problem.”
        Pft. Yeah, right. I mean, you don’t see captured terrorists or psychopaths saying that they killed dozens of people just because they are in poverty. They either kill just for attention of the public, whether it is negative or positive, or they kill because of their negative emotions to that one person or group.
        And education and poverty are not directly linked. You could have someone who is highly intelligent that can get away with murder every single time, and they could live in a middle-class or poor environment. Heck, you could have a millionaire who isn’t that very intelligent hook up some people to kill others and no one would know it.
        The crime rate (for people who do not want to get shot or severely injured) would escalate if guns were banned in all cities and states. The crime rate for people who also don’t care if they get killed in the process, would also escalate, since the criminals and terrorists know that most civilians cannot defend themselves with legally purchased firearms.
        The crime rate (for people who do not want to get shot or severely injured) would decrease if some parts of the US hadn’t strictly banned firearms, and the crime rate for people who could care less about getting killed in the process would only decrease slightly. If everyone had a firearm, the terrorists would have less of a chance of doing mass shootings and causing extreme fear to the public.
        The problem with everyone having firearms, is that the terrorists will try and plot bigger plans to kill as much people as possible in one attack, which means that with a strong and protective shield, will eventually be smashed down by more powerful force.
        And yes, I know very well that guns are not the only weapon that can kill a person. There are poisons, knives, ropes, and anything else in the world that a person can get their hands on. People can die from strangulation if the person with murderous intent gets disarmed. But right now, this comment is for the sole purpose of guns.

        • Faithskylar

          Do you also really think that guns are just for shooting humans? People have to get their meat sources somewhere, and they aren’t really going to be chasing some of the most dangerous animals with a sharpened wooden spear. They would want to get as much distance from the animals as possible as to not disturb, or intrigue its interest. If I had to go hunting, I’d rather have a hunting rifle than going out and getting stabbed in the intestines with a male deer’s, moose’s, or reindeer’s antlers. trust me, being pierced by antlers and just lying there trying to get shaken off and thrown onto the ground would most likely feel far worse than getting shot with a bullet.

      • Scotty

        “Poverty has a greater correlation to violent crime than access to firearms. Education and poverty are directly linked. In short, we don’t have a gun problem in the United States, we have a cultural problem.”

        Education and poverty have nothing to do with each other. Intelligence has a ton to do with both poverty and academic success. A person’s prefrontal cortex doesn’t better regulate his actions by any amount of homework. That would be like playing basketball to make yourself taller.

        Also, poverty doesn’t create crime; crime creates poverty. How many businesses are going to stick around that neighborhood in Milwaukee that was looted and burned?

      • Bluesman1950

        “Since over 45,000 police are killed and injured in the line of duty each year”

        45,000? More Jarhead idiocy.

        “Of the 49,851 officers who were assaulted in 2013, 14,565 (29.2 percent) sustained injuries.”
        https://ucr.fbi.gov/leoka/2013/officers-assaulted/assaults_topic_page_-2013
        Deaths 130.
        https://www.odmp.org/search/year?year=2015

        • jarhead1982

          So we see the number was higher, thanks for proving yet again why cops are so likely to shoot perverts like you…..

        • jarhead1982

          By the way blue balls, since there were only 37.3% of all 19,335 police agencies reporting data in 2013, maybe you can explain with proper govt. data link where the data on assaults and killings is a hard count or estimate moron…..oh wait…..

          Since the count is a hard count of what was reported, and deaths are always also reported regardless of the individual agency reporting not posting all their crime data, we see that only 37.3% of all assaults aggravated and such upon police are reported….

          Yet the brain damaged by too much sugar in the donuts whoore in the UK wants everyone to believe that count he posted is the actual totals…ROTFLMFAO……what a moron

      • Mike Breen

        And I am free to leave, you are not. You are the slave.

        • jarhead1982

          But you refuse to leave hence you prove yourself a liar yet again, and again, and again , and again, and again….

          • Mike Breen

            Yet more insane gibberish, this time from a man owned by his government and not free to leave. They might give him a free pass though, but who would have him and his rotten brain?

            • jarhead1982

              Come on coward walk your talk and leave, you brag about that which you yourself are too chicken schiite to do

      • Mike Breen

        Strange. A police officer getting killed in the line of duty is a rarity here in the UK, despite not killing any threat as a precaution.

        • jarhead1982

          Strange, we have the right to defend ourselves, you do not…..and since aggravated assault upon anyone, even officers can be fatal if not permanently crippling, you insist the criminals have superior rights to inflict whatever deamage or death they wish, why is that pervert?

          • Mike Breen

            Still telling lies to people who he know he is lying. How mad is that? Jarhead1982, proof that the welfare state is far from always a good idea.

            • jarhead1982

              Yeah you are still telling lies, and since the goat syphillis has clearly rotted your brain it is clear to all sane people you haven’t the intellect to discern truth from your fantasies oh brain damaged pedo

              George Soros has clearly overpaid for your services

      • Mike Breen

        “”United Kingdom: The UK enacted its handgun ban in 1996. From 1990 until the ban was enacted, the homicide rate fluctuated between 10.9 and 13 homicides per million. After the ban was enacted, homicides trended up until they reached a peak of 18.0 in 2003. Since 2003, which incidentally was about the time the British government flooded the country with 20,000 more cops, the homicide rate has fallen to 11.1 in 2010. In other words, the 15-year experiment in a handgun ban has achieved absolutely nothing.””

        Yet another case of presenting what was nothing more than a tweak to already very strict gun laws as proof that gun control does not work, and so such a ban in the USA would also not work. That is my beef with the pro gun brigade. It’s not so much that I disagree with their ideas, it’s their failure to be honest.

        Every single person I have seen on those boards who has argued for guns for all has been somewhere between ignorant, dishonest or flat out mad, such as jarhead1982. They are not making the case for gun freedom, they are making a case for gun control!

        This is a classic, the UK gun ban did not work=gun control does not work. Complete and utter rubbish. Of course it changed nothing of any great significance in the UK, because those few guns owned by a tiny minority were not of any significance!

        • legaleagle45

          Take it back to 1920 when the UK first implemented modern gun control legislation (supposedly as a “crime control” measure but actually in response to fear by the ruling class about what was happening in Russia).

          The homicide rate in the 10 years previous to the gun control legislation was higher than the homicide rate in the following 10 years.

          But you are right, the USA has always had substantially more firearms per capita than the UK — even before 1920. In fact most historians believe that the USA was the most heavily armed country in the world based upon private ownership of firearms from its very founding.

          In order to change that statistic, what you need is a law for the mass confiscation of firearms in the USA— but no one wants to take your gun, right?.

          • Mike Breen

            I’m not even going to try playing statistics any more. I know one thing for sure….The 1997 act, the one Americans think was the mass disarming of the UK population leaving them defenceless and angry, didn’t even happen.

            • legaleagle45

              Correct.. that disarmament movement began with the Game Act of 1671– which was temporarily stopped by the Glorious Revolution in 1689 then went unabated thereafter.

              The fact is that gun control had nothing to do with it.. as is documented by this article.

              • Bluesman1950

                “But you are right, the USA has always had substantially more firearms per capita than the UK — even before 1920. In fact most historians believe that the USA was the most heavily armed country in the world based upon private ownership of firearms from its very founding.”

                Which is why the USA, with higher levels of violence than the UK, despite what some try to allege by comparing different levels of assault , has a homicide rate 5 times that of the UK. Firearms make it much easier to kill people.

                The 1997 Act was not, as this article dishonestly pretends, a failed experiment to disarm the previously armed UK. It was simply a tweak to already effective laws which have helped keep our murder rate so low. Americans need to be aware that Britons overwhelmingingly do not want widespread ownership of firearms.

                • legaleagle45

                  Firearms or the lack thereof have little to do with it. Which is why our non firearm homicide rate is also substantially higher than the overall homicide rate in the UK.

                  Firearm ownership rates does not create a straight line correlation with homicide rates… in fact if you eliminate the USA as an outlier, there is no correlation between homicide rates and firearm ownership rates. Thus, Switzerland has a much higher firearm ownership rate than the UK and has a substantially lower homicide rate— same with Norway.

                  The tweak in 1997 had no impact as did the legislation enacted in 1920. Your low murder rate is more a result of cultural factors than its firearm ownership levels.

                  • Bluesman1950

                    It is probably both! I would rather not try the experiment of passing a 2nd. Amendment law in the UK and waiting to see what happened!

                    I’m not sure in what other country I would have felt happy being a police officer for 30 years without carrying a gun.

                    • legaleagle45

                      The 2nd amend is modeled upon a similar article found in the English Bill of Rights passed in 1689.

                      • Bluesman1950

                        But we had the sense to get rid of it. Muskets might not be a huge problem but AK47’s could be!

                  • Bluesman1950

                    “France where more people have died of mass shootings in 2015 alone than in the USA during Obama’s entire term.”

                    Really? http://www.gunviolencearchive.org/reports/mass-shooting.

                    • GAU-8

                      You might want to research that site better…..some of their “events” have zero deaths…it is a known left wing anti gun web site prone to convenient error

                      • Bluesman1950

                        That website only lists, on its ‘Mass Shootings’ page, incidents in which 4 or more people were shot. I know that pro-gunners try to restrict that definition to only those incidents with 4 or more deaths, but they would be ‘mass murder’.

                        The record of children under 12 shot (620 so far this year!) does include all incidents of death or injury, but listed separately.

                        Feel free to point out any of those “convenient errors” you can identify.

                        • GAU-8

                          Mass shooting is a media term

                        • Bluesman1950

                          “Mass shooting is a media term”
                          And one which Legaleagle was apparently happy to use.

                          So what would you call 8 people being shot?
                          http://www.wmcactionnews5.com/story/33744655/man-arrested-in-birthday-party-mass-shooting
                          How many more would be needed to make it a mass shooting? 10, 50, 100?

                        • GAU-8

                          Aggravated assault…attempted murder…I’m not swayed by emotional labels.

                        • Bluesman1950

                          Don’t forget the 8,124 actual shooting murders either. Or is ‘murder’ too much of an emotional label for you?

                        • GAU-8

                          Murder is the crime. The method is just that, the method; blame the criminal not the method.

                        • Bluesman1950

                          8,124 murders committed with guns last year. So many criminals!

                        • GAU-8

                          Everytown. Seriously, you are better than that. A notorious anti-gun front with erroneous data.

                        • Bluesman1950

                          So post your statistics.

                        • GAU-8

                          A child at 18? I think not. recut the numbers to exclude gang members.

                        • Bluesman1950

                          Well, 622 under- 12s (do you count them as children) shot so far this year.

                          I’m sure you will post some alleged statistical proof that most children in the USA were not shot and therefore none of the 622 were significant, but I find that less than convincing. After all, most Americans didn’t die on 9/11.

                        • Ron

                          Both you and Breen must be smoking some mind altering substance if you believe your “statistics” are accurate.

                          In 2013 the Centers for Disease Control National Vital Statistics Report records the following data on this subject, you can look it up for yourself at the link below.

                          Accidental deaths by firearm, all ages: 505
                          If we add just the number of “children” (age 0 to 24): 176

                          Intentional deaths by firearm, all ages (homicide): 11,208
                          If we add just the number of “children” (age 0 to 24): 3,897

                          You folks are willing to subordinate the actual facts with what you want to believe as provided by people like “Everytown”, which is just plain stupid. “Everytown” intentionally and maliciously skews the data to meet the needs of their political agenda, and the truth is not even on the list of their priorities. By repeating those intentional falsehoods you are just as culpable as they are for these lie’s.

                          http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr64/nvsr64_02.pdf

                        • Bluesman1950

                          622, so far this year, is the number of children under 12 shot, not just those killed.

                          Of course the CDC figures you quote show only deaths, not injuries. The clue is in the title ‘Deaths: Final Data for 2013’

                          “If we add just the number of “children” (age 0 to 24): 176″
                          You count people of 23 as children? And you accuse me of taking drugs!

                          In 2013 there were 69 accidental shooting deaths of under 15’s
                          There were 193 firearms homicides of under-15’s
                          That’s 262 under-15’s shot dead.
                          Page 41: http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr64/nvsr64_02.pdf

                          Unintentional Firearm Gunshot Nonfatal Injuries and Rates per 100,000
                          2013, United States, All Races, Both Sexes, Ages 0 to 14
                          Disposition: All Cases
                          538
                          Violence-Related Firearm Gunshot Nonfatal Injuries and Rates per 100,000
                          2013, United States, All Races, Both Sexes, Ages 0 to 14
                          Disposition: All Cases
                          1,174

                          https://webappa.cdc.gov/sasweb/ncipc/nfirates2001.html

                          So in 2013, according to the CDC 1,712 under-15’s were shot and wounded. 262 were shot dead. A total of 1,974 under-15’s shot and wounded or killed.

                          Makes the Mass Shooting Archive, which only counts 622 under-12’s this year look pretty modest!

                        • Ron

                          The “Mass Shooting Archive” is a political organization, not a research one. I dont determine how the CDC lists the ages, they do. I just work with the figures they present.

                          “There were 193 firearms homicides”. I am a retired federal law enforcement officer, and I have never seen a “firearms homicide”, not one. I am not one of the sheeple that you are trying to convert to your agenda, I am well educated and have a great deal of experience in the field, and I can spot both a lie and an agenda with equal ease. A homicide is a homicide, the weapon used to perpetrate it is only a detail, not a cause for action. I cant put the gun in jail, nor the shovel, club, or poison, only the criminal who used them. That gun control lie has been thoroughly exposed for what it is. But feel free to keep telling it, makes it easy to determine the agenda behind its use.

                        • Bluesman1950

                          “I have never seen a “firearms homicide”, not one.”
                          Ignoring the means by which a homicide is committed may be convenient for your arguments but the fact that the homicide rate in your armed country is 5 times our unarmed one and that guns are used in 60-70% of your homicides, compared with around 5% in the UK is just burying your head in the sand.

                          Of course nobody thinks that the weapon is responsible for the crime and that simple-minded strawman is getting very tired. ‘Firearms homicide’ is convenient shorthand for ‘a homicide committed by means of a firearms’. The significant point is that guns make it much easier to kill and wound people, particularly in large numbers and at a distance, than knives, clubs, punches etc.

                          In the ‘Gun-controlled’ UK you are 68 times less likely to be murdered by means of a firearm than the USA.

                        • Ron

                          Interesting, so the UK has a gun problem, thanks for telling us.

                          The UK is no utopia, your own citizens are organizing to force the government to repeal the irrational firearms laws that have been forced on them by far left and scared politicians. Much as the liberal press try to ignore the movement, to down play it, to minimize it, it is growing. They know that gun control is failed policy, that their own country is far more violent than most, the USA included. “Britain has the highest rate of violent crime in Europe, more so than the United States or even South Africa. They also have the second highest overall crime rate in the European Union. In 2008, Britain had a violent crime rate nearly five times higher than the United States (2034 vs. 446 per 100,000 population).” (The most violent country in Europe: Britain is also worse than South Africa and U.S., Daily Mail, July 3, 2009). That’s a pretty sad statistic.

                        • Bluesman1950

                          “Interesting, so the UK has a gun problem, thanks for telling us.”
                          Is that news to you? Who ever claimed we had no gun problem? It is just miniscule in comparison to yours.

                          “The UK is no utopia, your own citizens are organizing to force the government to repeal the irrational firearms laws that have been forced on them by far left and scared politicians. ”
                          I don’t know anybody who has ever claimed that the UK was Utopia, except pro-gunners building strawmen.

                          Perhaps you have fallen for the silly hijacked ‘Daily Telegraph’ online poll which has no validity whatsoever. There is absolutely no significant movement amongst the population of the UK to repeal our firearms legislation. 3 petitions to Parliament for that specific purpose raised less than 2000 signatures between them. 2 surveys by reputable organisations have shown at least 92% of Britons in favour of keeping the same, or stronger, controls.

                          As for the Daily Mail nonsense which failed to notice that only aggravated assaults in the USA were being compared with ALL assaults, however trivial, in the UK, it made an eye-catching headline, frightened old ladies and confused Americans, but was otherwise worthless. It’s not a sad statistic, it’s just a lie.

                          Britain wants to keep the firearms controls that it wanted Parliament to introduce.

                        • Mike Breen

                          There is no sizable number wanting to reform the law. The law most speak of was the 1997 act which effectively banned hanguns from one in a thousand of the population and that tiny minority were never allowed to own those strictly licenced guns for defence.

                          As to UK violent crime, it’s tiresome to have to continue to point out that this figure is caused by the way the UK records a huge amount of petty nonsense under the category of violent crime, up to snd including a nasty email.

                        • GAU-8

                          And your point? Shall we go with CDC facts?

                          57% were accidental
                          43% were the result of violence

                          Accidents are the result of negligence, much like the child backed over in their driveway.

                          Which BTW an equal number are killed annually in back overs and nearly 20x as many injured versus both accidental and violence related gun incidents combined.

                          Or do we stack that against the 2.5 times as many that accidentally drown, and 10x injured by accidental drowning?

                          It’s clear cars and pools are more dangerous. And there are 30x less pools per capita, and 40% less cars per capita.

                        • Bluesman1950

                          So, no problem then? Well done!

                        • Bluesman1950

                          “It’s clear cars and pools are more dangerous. And there are 30x less (sic) pools per capita, and 40% (sic) less cars per capita.

                          Oh well, since there are other things more dangerous than guns let’s ignore guns.
                          Since terrorism is far less dangerous than guns, swimming pools and cars let’s ignore terrorism as well!

                          Funny for someone who lives in Montana and carries a gun because he is, apparently, worried about the local wildlife attacking him, despite the fact that such attacks are phenomenally rare.
                          Average Number of Deaths per Year in the U.S
                          https://historylist.wordpress.com/2008/05/29/human-deaths-in-the-us-caused-by-animals/

                          Bee/Wasp 53
                          Dogs 31
                          Spider 6.5
                          Rattlesnake 5.5
                          Mountain lion 1
                          Shark 1
                          Alligator 0.3
                          Bear 0.5
                          Scorpion 0.5
                          Centipede 0.5
                          Elephant 0.25
                          Wolf 0.1
                          Horse 20
                          Bull 3

                          So, since Montana only has a homicide rate 3.5 times that of the UK and you have a vanishingly small risk of wildlife attack, you don’t need those guns any more than Americans need to stop shooting children, deliberately or accidentally, or leaving guns where the kids can shoot themselves!

                          I’m convinced!

                        • GAU-8

                          I know the whole idea of rights is beyond your meager mind to comprehend so quit now.

                          Please stay in the UK, I wouldn’t want you to wet your panties visiting the evil colonies.

                        • Bluesman1950

                          Yes you keep exercising those rights and don’t let the piles of bodies and wounded children worry you. It’s your right!

                          Please stay in the USA, I wouldn’t want you to wet your panties visiting the evil UK where you can’t carry a gun to protect yourself from Muslim rapists.

                        • GAU-8

                          I will. Given I have absolutely no idea how you think law abiding citizens are to blame for gun crime.

                          Tell me do you blame all drivers for every drunk driving accident?

                          I know, we can apply your logic…ban cars and eliminate car accidents. Ban kitchen utensils. Or some other nonsense.

                        • Bluesman1950

                          If our drunk driving accidents were 68 times higher than they are, as your shooting homicides are, we might be taking even more serious steps than we do now.

                        • GAU-8

                          So you blame all driver? Do you blame those young girls for getting themselves assaulted too? Sharia law might be for you

                        • Bluesman1950

                          Just think that allowing people carry guns around is like letting them drive drunk. Accidents do seem to happen.

                        • GAU-8

                          Actually you don’t restrict them from driving drunk. You punish them if they are caught breaking the law and are convicted.

                          We behave the same way. We don’t restrict rights of the peoole based on what they could do.

                        • Bluesman1950

                          In the UK if you are convicted of driving with excess alcohol you are normally disqualified from driving for a minimum of one year, so you are not allowed to drive at all. That doesn’t prevent the original offence, but serves to act as a preventative measure against further offending. Of course some offenders will carry on driving, despite the ban, but that renders them liable to arrest and further punishments, including prison.

                        • GAU-8

                          You are like a brand new 2nd. Lt. on his first land nav.

                        • Bluesman1950

                          “You are like a brand new 2nd. Lt. on his first land nav.”
                          I’m sure that means something to you.

                        • GAU-8

                          Lost

                        • Bluesman1950

                          Ah, you’re obviously thinking of the US Army.

                        • GAU-8

                          Lost is lost, and your meandering statements certainly verify you are navigating these pages without a map.

                        • jarhead1982

                          Youre a well worn pedophile, everyone knows that means everything to you

                        • Faithskylar

                          I’m sorry, but are you seriously this dumb? Since when have you heard that a drunk person remembered not to go into a car and drive it while drunk? It is by little to none. When you are drunk, you have vague recollection of memory and cannot process everything that is happening right when it is happening. Sure, people while not drunk will remember to not go and drive right after they drank a lot, but when they are drunk, they won’t remember what they first thought before they entered the bar. If only some people could bring a friend over that doesn’t like to drink to keep an eye on them and make sure to drive them home while they are still a bit loopy, the amount of drunk driving accidents would probably decrease.
                          Also, if the US restricts access to guns, the people who really want to have and use a gun for illegal purposed will find a way to get them, and that is known as the Black Market. If the law abiding citizen has no guns and criminals are still finding ways to get their hand on illegally purchased guns, then what good does that do? NONE. The crime rate will shoot right on up, and no one can do anything about that. It would be too late before the police arrive and hopefully “take care of business”. So just shove those poor excuses to restrict guns back into your cringy little mouth, and just shush for once. Unless you actually have a valid reason and EVIDENCE to support your opinion, then I would just suggest being quiet.

                        • Bluesman1950

                          I have not the least problem with Americans having guns and shooting each other. It’s your right after all! The 700 or so American children shot every year, the 8000+ homicides committed with firearms, the total gun deaths, which almost match those on your roads are your problem.

                          What I do object to is Americans telling us that we in the UK are unsafe because we don’t have or need guns, despite the fact that we are 5 times less likely to be murdered than you and over 60 times less likely to be shot dead.

                        • Faithskylar

                          I’m sorry, but there has only been 2 shootings in my neighborhood, and that was it for getting hit by a gun. It has almost been a year since those two have come up, and no other shootings have been recorded in this town. And if everyone had at least 1 firearm, the total amount of deaths or shootings per year would decrease. Now, I can understand that accidental shootings may increase, because kids like to sneak around and look for things, and they might see a gun. They might not even check to see if it has bullets in it or not, they grab it and pull the trigger, and they may accidently shoot themselves or someone else who is in the same room as them. You also must count the amount of people that tried or have committed suicide by shooting themselves.

                          But anyways, back to just criminal shootings. According to http://gun-control.procon.org/, if our gun rights are completely taken away, criminals who buy guns through the black market will increase, and the death toll from guns throughout the United States will escalate massively. If we have no guns, criminals will find it to be much more easier to kill people and rob people since we will not be able to defend ourselves. WHILE WE ARE STILL IN OUR HOMES. If we have guns, the criminals will fear more that they will get shot if they try to hurt or steal from someone. According to http://www.infowars.com/18-little-known-gun-facts-that-prove-that-guns-make-us-safer/, the more guns made and sold legally in the United States, the less crime there is throughout the country. For more proof, this website also says that over the past 20 years, gun sales have absolutely exploded, but homicides with firearms are down 39 percent during that time and “other crimes with firearms” are down 69 percent.
                          And yes, in the UK it may be 5 times better than being in the US, but here in the US is different. We are under different categorized laws and ideals. The UK may be safer with no one having guns, but if a terrorist attack suddenly happens and the police don’t have any firearms to at least find and take down the terrorist(s), then they will get away with a massive shooting and/or bombing. That is hypothetically, of course. It may or may not happen.

                        • Bluesman1950

                          Funny, everyone here who is pro-gun seems to live in a fantastically safe place where there is practically no crime or violence. That all happens somewhere else apparently. Nonetheless, if they don’t have guns to protect themselves they will be overwhelmed by a tide of homicidal criminals. Still, as I have said, keep your guns and feel safe. We will do without them and be safer.

                          Actually, we do have specialist armed units in the UK police who would be called upon in a terrorism situation. Most UK officers however, are not armed with firearms and do not want to be. Taking a gun into an otherwise unarmed situation, as the vast majority of incidents are, just increases the risks.

                        • Mike Breen

                          Colony? You mean the worlds biggest open prison? I wonder of they will ever come right out and say that you are not free to leave? You should visit, it might leave you feeling slightly foolish. You should take a walk, the coast to coast path. You’ll be perfectly safe, which is not the case in the USA.
                          As your own man Bill Bryson said of the Appalachian trail…”and of course being the USA, there have been murders”. It’s all very odd that a country with so many murders and so many not feeling safe without a gun, insists the UK is so much more dangerous.

                        • GAU-8

                          Here’s all the F#cks I don’t give.

                        • Mike Breen

                          Temper temper!

                        • GAU-8

                          How are those refugee rape gangs working out for you, Germany and Sweden?

                          What did they try to cover up in Rotherham? How many more cover ups are out there?

                          Wasn’t it you that talked about extreme value theory? You might also want to parse out self defense from your numbers? And wasn’t it you that admitted UK had higher violence and rape rates? Which are orders of magnitude greater than homicide rates? Overall…per your admission the UK is more dangerous…not even including your notorious under reporting of crime? How many number did you fudge while an active cop?

                          Have you come across a bear or mountain lion? Of course not…your greatest risk is a fox. Or maybe an irate hedge hog.

                        • Bluesman1950

                          “Overall…per your admission the UK is more dangerous…”
                          You are obviously thinking of someone else!

                          Keep on banging on about sexual abuse, which you know about because it has been uncovered and dealt with. Obviously there is no sexual abuse, uncovered or otherwise, in the USA (except of course that 1 in 5 girls and 1 in 20 boys in the USA is a victim of child sexual abuse; https://victimsofcrime.org/media/reporting-on-child-sexual-abuse/child-sexual-abuse-statistics ) It takes the attention off your horrific rates of homicide and the shooting of 623 children so far this year.

                          “How many number did you fudge while an active cop?”
                          None, but then I didn’t work in the LAPD. “The Los Angeles Times analyzed eight years of LAPD crime data and found that aggravated assaults had been routinely classified as “simple assaults” and therefore weren’t counted in the city’s numbers tallying violent crime.”
                          http://time.com/4074896/los-angeles-crime-rates-higher-assaults/

                          Of course, that problem only affects the LAPD and only in respect to assaults doesn’t it? I mean there must be, as in the UK, a rigorous system of national inspection and reporting on of all your 17,000+ police organisations large and small. Although their reporting to the FBI is entirely voluntary someone checks up on them and publishes the results, don’t they?

                          “Have you come across a bear or mountain lion? Of course not…your greatest risk is a fox. Or maybe an irate hedge hog.”
                          So, do tell, What gun do you carry daily to deal with bears? How many times have you used your firearm to defend yourself from all of those dangerous animals?

                        • GAU-8

                          Read your replies. You’ll find it. Seriously, that denial is pathetic.

                          You have a spare tire? Why? For the one or two flats you might get over 30 years. You have fire extinguisher? For the 0.03% chance of a fire?

                          Hiking alone in bear country. No really, come to the US and enjoy. However, I’ll continue to exercise my right.

                          https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/a598b9376aaa500ebd69437664a9c93f3bf28591ff027c948837e84fc2868cc4.jpg

                        • Bluesman1950

                          Any pictures of the ones you have had to shoot to save your life?

                        • Faithskylar

                          If you cannot put out a fire fast enough before it gets too large or spreads out too much, can be deadly. There is a reason why all rooms in schools and buildings have a fire extinguisher nearby. And even though a spare tire would most likely not be needed in an emergency, you still don’t know if your tire will go flat. Some roads are hardly ever driven on in the US, it almost seems abandoned. If you got a flat tire, it would be even worse if your phone did not have any service. No phone service = no chance to call 911 or a nearby towing company. You might be a couple of miles away from the nearest town/city, or you might not even be 100 miles near a city. So would you rather take the chance of being able to use a spare tire, or be stranded in the middle of nowhere?
                          Yeah, that’s what I thought.

                        • Bluesman1950

                          Thank you for your explanation of the need for fire extinguishers and spare tyres, although, having used both, I was already quite familiar with the principles underlying them.

                          What I do not need, however, is a gun, because I live in a country where very few people have access to guns and the murder of an ordinary member of the public by use of a firearm is extremely rare. That is why I was able to be a frontline UK police officer for 30 years and never carry a gun.

                          The chances of being shot would be greatly increased if we had hundreds of millions of guns around in the way that you do.

                        • Faithskylar

                          Well the USA is different than the UK. A LOT different (although our government is trying to make us like you with the gun control and the brainwashing). In our Constitution and our Bill of Rights, the 2nd Amendment clearly states, “A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.” We take our rights seriously, and if our rights are infringed, the people will either gather a peaceful rally and protest, or they will take things into their own hands and start shooting people up. That is also why Chicago is the highest death rate by guns for just one city. Chicago strictly limits the people’s guns rights, and the people rebel in protest. Also many of the shootings may also be from criminals taking advantage of the gun control laws, and they are doing their happy dance for the people who clearly think what their thinking is brilliant, but what is extremely wrong. Sure, the UK is a happy place without everyone having guns, but if the US government decides to revoke the 2nd Amendment, the people will freak out and we will end up in another civil war.

                        • Bluesman1950

                          “Well the USA is different than the UK. A LOT different”
                          Well, for a start you have 5 times our murder rate.

                          “…the people will freak out and we will end up in another civil war.”
                          At least you’re already tooled up for one.

                        • GAU-8

                          Have I come across bear or mountain lion? Yes.

                        • Bluesman1950

                          And you had to kill them in order to save yourself?

                        • GAU-8

                          Which you prefer? To need and not have or have and not need.

                          Luckily we have the right to choose for ourselves

                        • Bluesman1950

                          So you’ve never actually had to defend yourself from a bear. What a relief!

                          So you only carry a gun when in danger from bears. That sounds sensible.

                        • GAU-8

                          Unlike you I’m a normal human and not blessed with pre-cognition. “Minority Report” must be looking for you.

                        • Bluesman1950

                          You haven’t shown me the statistical risk of being killed by a bear in the USA, but since it is around 60 times less than that of being killed by a dog, which is itself less than one in nine million, it must be a very impressive-looking number! Still, you can’t be too careful can you.

                        • GAU-8

                          No. But then again I don’t have to justify my lawful exercising of my rights to anyone, nor am I apologetic for doing so. So yes I carry, and it’s a big 45_70 with 405 gr. hard cast.

                        • Bluesman1950

                          No you don’t have to justify it. It must be heavy to lug about though, what with the fire extinguisher you must carry all the time, given that you are over 6,500 times more likely to die in a fire than be killed by a bear. Better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it!

                        • GAU-8

                          Slowly understanding rights? Next we will work on proper use of data.

                        • Bluesman1950

                          Yes, please explain why our lack of firearms is totally unconnected with our tiny firearms homicide rate again. I love a good laugh.

                        • GAU-8

                          Please explain why your homicide rate is totally unrelated to your gun confiscations and restrictions. That is the correct comparison. Like the unfortunate Harvard professors you have made the same error by constructing a poorly formed analysis. Was the intent to reduce crime or reduce gun crime? If the latter all you have done is proven criminal behavior is unaffected by method availability, and while your psyche may have soothed by the low firearm homicide rate the effect on real homicide rate was totally unaffected, so instead of a small percentage of firearm homicides there are a greater percentage of knife homicides. Your overall homicide rate remains unaffected. If you draw some sense of accomplishment from that, great. My hypothesis has always been there is no correlation between your homicide rate and gun control laws, and you continue to prove my statement true time Anna time again. Like the left wing double speak so common in the US you feel interjection if the word “firearm” somehow vindicates you. It doesn’t, it is merely another demonstration of how progressives mislead the public in their march for statism. While the UK may gleefully surrender their rights to the State there are a significant and growing percentage in the US that won’t.

                        • Bluesman1950

                          ” Like the unfortunate Harvard professors you have made the same error by constructing a poorly formed analysis.”
                          Yes, when will those ignorant Harvard professors learn to think as clearly and objectively as you?

                          “…all you have done is proven criminal behavior is unaffected by method availability,…”
                          So why does the USA with wide firearms availability have a firearms homicide rate 68 times that of the UK with very limited firearms availability? I know that the USA is far more violent than the UK , but , even then, why do we murder so few people? Why do we so rarely use guns to do it?

                          “… instead of a small percentage of firearm homicides there are (sic) a greater percentage of knife homicides.”
                          Whilst knife homicides are a greater proportion of our much lower overall rate, your knife homicide rate is also far higher then ours.

                          “My hypothesis has always been there is no correlation between your homicide rate and gun control laws,”
                          And our gun-controlled country has 1/5th of your homicide rate and, recently, 1/68th of your firearms homicide rate. Perhaps you need a new hypothesis.

                          “While the UK may gleefully surrender their rights to the State there are a significant and growing percentage in the US that won’t.”
                          And while the USA may gleefully surrender their rights to life to the gun lobby, there is an overwhelming percentage in the UK that won’t.

                        • GAU-8

                          Good question, ask them. My guess is when they stop getting funded by anti – gun groups.

                          Again…..you have continue to prove yourself gleefully ignorant.

                          Learn what correlation is … I know it’s a stretch….but do try…I mean you can fit it in when you and your UK police buddies aren’t under reporting crime.

                          You might want to review your own comments where you acknowledge the UK had higher violence and rape rates. Which by the way are 60x the homicide rate of the US.

                          You are not very good at this are you?

                        • Bluesman1950

                          “the UK had higher violence and rape rates. Which by the way are 60x the homicide rate of the US.”
                          You conflate violence (undefined) and rape rates, without any evidence and then allegedly compare them with your homicide rates!?

                          I’ve no doubt our consumption of teacakes vastly exceeds your deaths in road crashes, but I’m not sure what that would prove!

                          Please be aware that you are talking to someone who has dealt with crime in the UK, not some hillbilly banjo-twanger who will fall for any rubbish you post.

                        • GAU-8

                          Was there a point to that cupcake?

                        • Bluesman1950

                          Just pointing out your confusion sweety.

                        • GAU-8
                        • Mike Breen

                          You are fooling only yourself. Bluesman is running rings around your nonsense. The UK has higher “violent crime” figures for reasons that have been explained to you many time. Yet another gun nut that does not like the explanation and clings to the UK higher violent crime like a drowning man clutching at straws. Written to your congressman regarding the removal of your right to leave the USA yet? Or is it all good as long as you have a gun?

                        • jarhead1982

                          Thats fukking hilarious, the tax slave in the UK keeps inferring by his illicit narcotic induced fantasies to have repealed the 13th amendment because it claims an mandated tax by the IRS makes us slaves and prisoners in the US, man that takes a lot of illicit narcotic abuse and physical brain damage to believe that, but then we have mukey, my bad

                        • Mike Breen

                          Yet another rant showing mental instability and no grip on reality. Every post you make a is a case FOR gun control.

                        • jarhead1982

                          Still waiting for you to demonstrate how the IRS tax mandate magically repealed the 13th amendment oh British tax slave

                        • Mike Breen

                          The IRS did not need to repeal anything in order to make you slaves, they just needed a vicious and powerful tool to stop you leaving and hiding and avoiding the current system. They now have it. FATCA, part of the HIRE act and signed in to law in 2010 by Obama, effective 2014.

                        • jarhead1982

                          So the fool admits the 13th amendment has never been repealed hence slavery is not legal hence slavery doesn’t exist because of a mandated tax penalty by the IRS on the few criminals and pedophiles like Mukey pedo puffer who were punished for leaving the US to escape prosecution for their. crimes.

                          The poor fool simply admited to lying repeatedly, and just like chicken little, no one listens to a proven liar like Mukey pedo puffer

                        • jarhead1982

                          Yet another rant showing mental instability and no grip on reality. Every post you make a is a case FOR demokrap/pedophile control.

                        • GAU-8

                          You seem to be really #ucking confused. You have your panties in a bunch over financial institution reporting that reflects MOUs between governments concerning 165 year old US tax laws regarding US citizens. You seem to ignore the US allows its citizens to live wherever they want, we’ve been doing it for over 240 years. Your claim to gain is what? Misleading people based on 4,000 renouncements out of 318,000,000 citizens, that includes 44,000,000 legal immigrants, over 5,000,000 of which came from the EU. Shoot, our immigrant citizens exceed the population if Canada.

                        • Mike Breen

                          Everything changed in 2010. The people you claim as property were mostly leading normal lives by avoiding your punishnent. They can bo longer do that, theif.

                        • GAU-8

                          Tax law was in place since 1861, the original intent was to discourage civil war draft dodgers. 2010 FATCA was a financial institution reporting initiative. But tell me, how much do you make by misleading people?

                        • Mike Breen

                          I know how long the law has been in place and what it achieves. Punishment for those that try to leave. You found an effective way to enforce it in 2010, effective 2014.

                        • GAU-8

                          And yet how many prosecutions? Two banks? Who also happened to launder drug cartel money.

                        • Mike Breen

                          Who cares about the banks? These are real people who’s lives you are ruining while stealing from the tax bases of other countries.

                        • GAU-8

                          So no data on prosecutions? Got it.

                        • Mike Breen

                          4000 is not the correct figure, it’s much higher. Secondly it is incorrect to compare this figure with the general US population. Look at the percentage living overseas and how many can afford to renounce! A couple of hundred to at least 10,00 ? And it will ruse again next year. You are getting your bloody renunciations!

                        • GAU-8

                          8.0 million overseas. And in 2015 the number of renunciations was 4,279. The source? US Treasury Department which has to report that number by law!

                          Once again you are wrong.

                        • Mike Breen

                          So why do so many claim their name never reaches the list? Isaac Brock society.

                        • GAU-8

                          US Treasury has to report by law. Who the f#ck does the isaac society report to? Are they under Congressional oversight? You’ll excuse me if I don’t give a sh#t what they say.

                        • Mike Breen

                          And a million people in Canda are now suffering because of your filthy laws . And is it filthy law? Your own government said that taxing diaspora was wrong, but only when other countries do it! HYPOCRITES!

                        • GAU-8

                          You mean one million US citizens and permanent green card holders. There I corrected that for you.

                          And for Canada, accounts totalling under $50K, Canadians RRSP, TFSA, RESP, and RDSP should not even be reported. (Per a US / Canada tax attorney)

                          Per the IRS, 82% of all filers owe zero tax.

                          How many might be impacted? The IRS says about 50,000. Most of which are hiding assets in foreign accounts not even living abroad.

                          And truth is just a few banks have been prosecuted, most for knowingly hiding assets, include in that list HSBC and Wachovia _ mostly for laundering drug cartel money.

                          So how much money do you make by scaring people for no good reason.

                        • Mike Breen

                          Oh, and what if other countries decided to tax your immigrants? You would cry foul! Hey, you did it already! HYPOCRITES!

                        • GAU-8

                          Hey asshat, they already do. If I live in the UK I pay UK taxes.

                          If the UK wants to tax UK citizens that’s their prerogative.

                          You really are clueless.

                        • GAU-8

                          Yes, the UK has higher violent crime (Grievous Bodily Harm) and rape rates than the US. You, like others, think definitions = data, and still conveniently ignore US aggravated assault doesn’t even have to include any bodily contact. So shove that up your @$$. So much for that. Then consider, and read this very slowly it better yet have dungeons explain it to. In the UK there is no correlation between gun control and confiscation and violent crime rates, the British have allowed their rights to be stripped under false pretense. In the world there is no correlation between gun control and homicide rates. If, like blue, it makes you sleep better that there is a .0003 difference in homicide risk nationally while ignoring the 20x plus greater risk of violent crime or rape then good for you. I won’t even get into the real analysis where national averages are meaningless work respect to personal risk. That would make your feeble little brain melt.

                          I know you are jealeous of US citizens and our rights, it’s OK. But that’s what you get when a bunch of socialists piss away their rights and then try to convince themselves they are better if not having control of their lives. Enjoy life as a sheeple.

                        • GAU-8

                          Silly Brit, right to keep and bear arms. No justification needed.

                        • Bluesman1950

                          You also have the right to carry a fire extinguisher, against the vastly higher risk of being burned to death and yet you choose not to exercise that right. Funny that. Bears must be more frightening to you than fires.

                        • GAU-8

                          Silly Brit. Do you often come across people in spontaneous combustion? Or experience it yourself? If not why do you carry an extinguisher. Most of us apply common sense and have them available according to risk: home, jeep, work shop, by the fire pit. By the same token your national averages for animal attacks are meaningless. You have to look at localized numbers. There are zero bear, mountain lion, lynx, wolf in the vast majority of the US, just like there are no sharks in our glacial lakes. But please continue to demonstrate your analytical prowess. It is entertaining. Don’t let mama take your calculator away

                        • Bluesman1950

                          “Silly Brit. Do you often come across people in spontaneous combustion?”
                          Probably about as often as you come across someone being attacked by a bear.

                        • GAU-8

                          So the answer is yes, interesting..how long have people spontaneously burst into flames around you?

                        • Bluesman1950

                          About as long as I’ve met Americans unable to recognise sarcasm.

                        • GAU-8

                          But keep on carrying that fire extinguisher….I’ll just keep mine in my house and jeep where I might actually need it.

                        • Bluesman1950

                          Just lock your doors to keep the bears out!

                        • GAU-8

                          What are you worried about ? Russian circus bears? Let me guess you have never been west of New York?

                        • Bluesman1950

                          I’m not worried about bears, so I don’t carry a big gun to defend myself from them, as you say you have to. I’d be more worried about Montanans, who murder around 40 times as many people as are killed by bears each year in the entire USA.

                          I’m pretty sure Juneau was west of New York when I last went there. Have they moved it?

                        • GAU-8

                          40x. Hyperbole much? And still bad at logic I see. Try a walk through Denali, then call me.

                        • Bluesman1950

                          Figures much! Bear killings are around 0.5 per year in the entire USA. Montana homicides are 21 per year.

                        • GAU-8

                          https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/847192b18ae68694dfa89cfa3b48322bc7d74f3d2a815b117e9c0f59c1eb707e.jpg

                          I’m sure this guy loves your stats, attacked by the same bear twice. Of course better off than the guy mauled to death this year.

                          At least we don’t have to justify a right to keep and bear arms to dumb shiitake bureaucraps with mindsets like yours.

                          Why do you keep 1.85 million government cctv cameras rubbed on your citizens? The bbc reports they only lead to one arrest power year.

                          Why did the UK disarm it’s citizens? Six major gun control laws since 1903. The 1900 homicide rate was 0.96. The 2003 rate was near 1.8.

                          Please tell me how effective your surrender of rights has been.

                          But luckily I have my rights, not subject to the whim of some dumb @$$ in Washington.

                        • Bluesman1950

                          “Please tell me how effective your surrender of rights has been.”
                          We have a homicide rate 20% of yours and a firearms homicide rate 1.47% of yours.

                        • GAU-8

                          No effect. Got it.

                          Nice attempt at ignoring your homicide rate was unaffected by giving up your right.

                          And let’s see. Homicide Rate unaffected….That just means people kill people regardless.

                        • Bluesman1950

                          At 20% the rate of the USA.

                        • GAU-8

                          No effect, get it.

                        • Bluesman1950

                          Other than a murder rate 20% of yours, no.

                          What right was it that you think we gave up and when?

                        • GAU-8

                          You probably need to re-read the origins of Englishman’s rights and track your gradual surrender of them.

                          “Whim”. Spoken like a true progressive. Sad really, you want the nanny state to wrap you in a little cocoon of safety? They don’t care about you, if they did why would they let so many single military age Muslim men in as “refugees” and hide their hate crimes?

                          Why have 1.85 million government cctc cameras if the lead to but single arrests?

                          Yes we had the 4th amendment violating patriot act, but your government secretly tapped into your data and phone lines 17 years ago.

                        • Bluesman1950

                          “Whim”. Spoken like a true progressive.
                          But not by me! Are you hearing those voices in your head again?

                          “They don’t care about you, if they did why would they let so many single military age Muslim men in as “refugees” and hide their hate crimes?”
                          So how many has the UK let in?

                          “Why have 1.85 million government cctc cameras if the lead to but single arrests?”
                          Still nothing from you to show that that is anything but something you dreamed.

                        • GAU-8

                          “Luckily I have a safe life, not subject to the whim of some dumb @$$ with a gun!”.

                          Really , one post earlier “whim” and you claim never to have said it. Why should I expect honesty from you? How many crime numbers did you fudge while a cop?

                          Muslim men….apparently enough for the Rotherham rape gang. And the hordes of young British women “indoctrinated”- across the country.

                          Study after study shows cctv fails to deter crime.
                          http://www.colchester.gov.uk/CHttpHandler.ashx?id=7364

                          Enjoy life as a sheeple.

                        • Bluesman1950

                          Sorry, I recall now, an altered reposting by me of a comment you made about the whim of some Washington bureaucrat, which now seems, oddly, to have disappeared!

                          You really are obsessed with Rotherham aren’t you. Of course, if we all had guns there wouldn’t be any sexual grooming would there. It’s not as if those offenders would carry guns too is it?

                          “Study after study shows cctv fails to deter crime.
                          http://www.colchester.gov.uk/C…”
                          Really?
                          You appear not to have read the study you quote:
                          “An area for example that has CCTV cameras becomes less of a potential crime target as it acts as a capable guardian. It is clear that CCTV plays a huge part in crime prevention methods.” P.14
                          “This graph shows that 94% of my respondents said yes. This means confirms that’s the vast
                          majority of the public are favour of and feel CCTV is needed in society. ” P.42
                          “My evidence is clear that CCTV does work in society especially towns such as Colchester.” P.43
                          “However above all I found that all the benefits of CCTV outweigh the negatives and the answer to my question is Yes CCTV does work.” P.46

                          There are many other comments supportive of the positive effects of CCTV, but I think you get the picture. Hardly a ringing condemnation! Did you think I wouldn’t check up on what your source actually said? Any other of the numerous studies you think prove your point?

                          “Why do you keep 1.85 million government cctv cameras rubbed (sic) on your citizens? The bbc reports they only lead to one arrest power (sic) year.”
                          Still no evidence from you, however, to support that. I wonder why? Surely the BBC report hasn’t just disappeared has it? For future reference, you may wish to just tell the lies and not try to embellish them with quoted sources which completely disprove them, as you have done with this imaginary BBC report.

                          You rely on diversion from the actual issue of firearms and homicide and simple lying.

                        • GAU-8

                          actual number of cameras currently working around the country is of just around 1.85 million,

                          1.85 MILLION CCTV CAMERAS INSTALLED IN THE UK, CLAIMS REPORT

                          The data comes as a result of an extensive study carried out by deputy chief constable of Cheshire, Graeme Gerrard, who’s also the lead on CCTV issues for the Association of Chief Police Officers (ACPO

                          The civil rights group Liberty estimates that the average Londoner is captured on camera around 300 times a day while BBW claims Britain has 20 percent of the world’s CCTV cameras and only 1 percent of the world’s populatioNnn

                          There is a perception that the cameras reduce the crime rate, but there is no evidence for that, say activists. “The Met police have said that in 2008, only one crime was solved for every 1,000 CCTV cameras,” says Carr.

                        • Bluesman1950

                          So, not ‘government cameras’ then.

                          “..there is no evidence for that, say activists”
                          The unsupported words of ‘activists’. A very reliable source! The evidence you posted above disproves that!

                          “The Met police have said that in 2008, only one crime was solved for every 1,000 CCTV cameras,”
                          1,850 crimes solved, according to anti-camera activists!

                          Try posting some actual links to real evidence that doesn’t contradict your own claims.

                        • GAU-8

                          So effective…You had the same homicide rate before you ruled over sheeple.

                          But hey you are giving up free speech now with your “hate speech” police…So soon to will have an excuse not to even talk about it.

                        • Bluesman1950

                          Still waiting for your ‘1.85 million cameras – 1 arrest’ citation!

                          “But hey you are giving up free speech now with your “hate speech” police…So soon to (sic) will have an excuse not to even talk about it.”

                          Like this you mean?

                          “I think the media is among the most dishonest groups of people I’ve ever met. They’re terrible.”
                          “One of the things I’m gonna do, and this is only gonna make it tougher for me, and I’ve never said this before, but one of the things I’m gonna do if I win… is I’m gonna open up our libel laws so when they write purposely negative and horrible and false articles, we can sue them and win lots of money. We’re gonna open up those libel laws.
                          “With me, they’re not protected, because I’m not like other people…We’re gonna open up those libel laws, folks, and we’re gonna have people sue you like you never get sued before.”
                          President-elect Donald Trump February 2016.

                          Look to your own rights. The 2nd Amendment may be safe with him, but you might need to look out for the 1st.

                        • GAU-8

                          When did libel become free speech? You really don’t understand rights. Oh and btw, our President can’t “open” up laws. And we already have SCOTUS rulings basically iterating there is no such thing as “hate” speech. I worry about all my rights. It doesn’t take but a single generation to lose what so many died for.

                        • Paul

                          Besides, you do not lose your rights when the last one is taken from you, you lose them when you yield the first one.

                        • GAU-8

                          True. I yield nothing (I’m too old, too cranky, a widower and I have already been to NJ – what else can they do to me?)
                          https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/6111b4c0c38a6c612b3e638da2f90eaf2d697b5b2f95cb964bad37f4d625cfd0.jpg

                        • Bluesman1950

                          “Oh and btw, our President can’t “open” up laws.”
                          Trump thinks he can. Perhaps you should tell him.

                          “And we already have SCOTUS rulings basically iterating there is no such thing as “hate” speech.”
                          I’m sure the KKK is very glad to hear that.

                        • GAU-8

                          Trump isn’t POTUS yet.

                          As reprehensible as I believe many groups are from the KKK to The New Black Panther they both have a right to free speech.

                        • Bluesman1950

                          “Trump isn’t POTUS yet.”
                          No, you still have a sane, reasonable President for the next few weeks. Enjoy!

                          Wait till Trump starts suing the ones whose opinions he doesn’t like! The KKK will probably still be safe though.

                        • GAU-8

                          Sane, reasonable…..now I know you are delusional

                        • Bluesman1950

                          “Why did the UK disarm it’s (sic) citizens? Six major gun control laws since 1903. The 1900 homicide rate was 0.96. The 2003 rate was near 1.8.”

                          So, our rate of recorded homicides increased by 88% over that period.
                          In the USA, with the right to bear arms to defend yourselves your 1900 rate was 1.2, by 2000 it had reached 5.5, 4.6 times the rate it had been in 1900 and an increase of 360%! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate_by_decade
                          Please tell me how effective your right to bear arms has been, bearing in mind a quadrupling of your recorded murder rate over the same period? A rate of increase in recorded murders 4 times that of the UK!
                          (Before you whinge about it being Wikipedia, the sources are all listed in the footnotes!)

                        • GAU-8

                          Very effective notice we are not a colony for over 240 years now.

                          But I’m glad you finally came to senses and admit your laws had no effect, in fact….they could be argued to have a negative correlation.

                          Actually, the greatest negative influence on crime in the US has been the liberal progressive movement. Prohibition brought organized crime, open borders allows drug violence (upwards of 38% of all felons convicted of murder are here illegally), bastions of liberalism like Chicago, DC, Baltimore are responsible the the vast majority of violent crime.

                        • Bluesman1950

                          “But I’m glad you finally came to senses (sic) and admit (sic)your laws had no effect, in fact….they could be argued to have a negative correlation.”
                          But only by someone like you who only pretends to understand the concept.

                          So, any explanation as to why your homicide rate increased at 4 times the rate of the UK in the 20th century, to nearly 5 times what it was at the beginning?

                        • GAU-8

                          Add laws, disarm population, increases in violent crime. Yes, that pretty much sums it up.

                        • Bluesman1950

                          “Add laws, disarm population, increases in violent crime. Yes, that pretty much sums it up.”
                          And yet a brilliant statistician such as yourself fails to notice that that process accompanied an increase in recorded homicide of 88% in the UK. In the USA, however, with its armed population, the increase over the same period was 360%, nearly 4 times as much”

                          No laws, arm population, massive increases in violent crime. Yes, that pretty much sums it up.

                        • GAU-8

                          And certainly then you’ll defend how more restrict laws than even the UK kept Brazil and Mexico at lower rates than yourself …… Oh wait that’s right….. They didn’t ….
                          66,000. Homicides in Brazil last year….

                          But then the US with 65% of the entire world’s must be just a blood bath….oh wait it isn’t. Not even above the average or median.

                          But wait then the 100 million lawful owners must be really dangerous….oops….not even close 0.1 per 100,000

                          But how about that 15 million of us allowed to conceal carry? Dang, 14x less likely to commit any crime than even a average citizen, even less likely than a police officer.

                          And then to top it off… Yes our homicide rate is 0.0004 fraction higher, but the UK violent crime and rape rate is much more than that above the US rates.

                          You enjoy being wrong don’t you?

                        • Bluesman1950

                          I’m not Mexican or Brazilian. I’m refuting the article’s silly assertion that UK gun laws don’t work.

                          “Yes our homicide rate is 0.0004 fraction higher, but the UK violent crime and rape rate is much more than that above the US rates.”
                          “0.0004 fraction higher” sounds much less than 500% doesn’t it! As for your continued frantic grasping at fictional straws of a higher UK crime rate, in spite of having the facts explained to you ad nauseam, you best stop taking the Daily Mail too seriously!

                          Our recorded homicide rate rose by 88% over the 20th century while yours rose 360% over the same period to 5 times ours. Wriggle as much as you like and pretend some statistical deceit, the facts speak for themselves.

                        • GAU-8

                          Blogs now?

                          And Yes. The unpleasant truth is you have higher violent crime and rape rates

                          65% of the world’s privately owned firearms, not sure why that didn’t chime through

                          But if you use cross country gun laws as evidence, be prepared for the same comparisons destroying your assertions that your homicide rates are a result of your laws. They are not.

                        • Bluesman1950

                          I’ve pointed out the truth so many times that I am not prepared to waste more effort trying to enlighten you when you are either unwilling or unable to understand the facts. The blog summarises the points quite effectively. The truth is that we have far lower violence rates than you. Your homicide and hospital attendance rates confirm that.

                          The only ‘cross country’ comparison I am interested in is that between the UK which has very few guns and very few firearms crimes and the USA which has very many guns and very many firearms crimes. If this article did not make false and ignorant allegations about the UK, which you and others have obviously swallowed whole, I would not bother to refute them.

                          Found your source for ‘1.85 million cctv cameras = 1 arrest’ nonsense yet?

                        • GAU-8

                          Why without any guns do you have a higher violent crime and rape rate? Yes. Why do progressives like to parse data to support their prejudices. Does the US have a higher homicide rate? Yes. Are your lower rates of homicide the result of your laws restricting gun ownership? No.

                          ## but please continue to ignore that part of the US definition of aggravated assault doesn’t even require any physical contact our injury occur. So go ahead use your selective definition. It will still be wrong. ##

                          The higher rates of violent crime and rape in the UK far exceed the homicide rate difference.

                        • Bluesman1950

                          “Why without any guns do you have a higher violent crime and rape rate?”
                          We don’t have higher violent crime rate. we just record more crimes as violent, which the FBI does not include in its figures.
                          Recorded rape figures are notoriously subject to variations caused by willingness to report, legal definition and social attitudes.

                          “Does the US have a higher homicide rate? Yes. Are your lower rates of homicide the result of your laws restricting gun ownership? No.”
                          We just have far less access to guns and shoot people at about 1/68th the rate of Americans!

                          b”ut please continue to ignore that part of the US definition of aggravated assault doesn’t even require any physical contact our injury occur.”
                          But bear in mind that it totally excludes all the simple assaults which ARE included in UK violent crime figures! So go ahead use your selective definition. It will still be wrong.

                          “The higher rates of violent crime and rape in the UK far exceed the homicide rate difference.” But only as long as you compare totally different crimes!

                          You might as well compare injuries in UK road accidents with deaths in US road accidents to claim that you less at risk of harm on the road in America!

                        • GAU-8

                          still trying to claim a definition is a statistic? Next you’ll tell me “penetration” and “attempted penetration” are different in the UK vs. US.

                          So now your only retort is well…. reporting reluctance….so should I also boost your numbers up to account for UK police fudging the numbers downward too?

                          Btw I used assault with injury, grievous bodily harm vs. aggravated assault. Still higher in the UK.

                          You may shoot people less, but giving up your rights has had zero reductive influence on your violent crime rate. So what have you accomplished? Answer: Nothing.

                          But again sheeple, rolling over like good little follower is your personal choice. Just don’t lie and claim your disarmament is yielding any results. It’s clearly not.

                          Really? Nation master? Go back to blogs.

                        • Bluesman1950

                          Keep wriggling!

                        • GAU-8

                          Dodging? Tell me sheeple, how does it feel you sacrifice what were your rights for a false cause? No effect, except you are now denied another right.

                        • Bluesman1950

                          “Tell me sheeple, how does it feel you sacrifice what were your rights for a false cause?”
                          Tell me sheeple, how does it feel you sacrifice your lives for a false cause?

                          “No effect, except you are now denied another right.”
                          Except being 5 times less likely to be murdered and 68 times less likely to be shot dead!

                        • GAU-8

                          Baaaah.

                          I know the analysis is list on you, so I won’t try for the 50th time.

                          Enjoy serfdom your masters are proud

                          https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/58e21a2d29dcfe9d48afc375b7bc450c69b2d1731ce8523474476c61eb6c222b.jpg

                        • Bluesman1950

                          I know the analysis is list (sic) on you, so I won’t try for the 50th time.
                          Well that’s a mercy.

                          “Enjoy serfdom your masters are proud”
                          Perhaps you should be learning some Russian, now that Putin will be pulling your President’s strings from January. He didn’t go to all that trouble to get Trump elected for nothing. Still oligarchy seems to work well enough for Putin, so maybe the USA will get used to it too. You always have your guns to overthrow the government if they get out of hand don’t you?

                        • GAU-8
                        • Bluesman1950

                          Good for you. Shoot each other as often as you like.

                          Just don’t whine because we don’t want to.

                        • GAU-8

                          1 per 1,000 there corrected….still a sorry rate for someone with a much higher assault and rape rate. But the sheeple will gladly give up their rights and privacy for false promises

                        • Bluesman1950

                          OK, so you admit you exaggerated by 1,850% have reduced it by a factor of 1,850! That’s a start. Now let’s see a reliable source for that new figure!

                        • GAU-8
                        • Bluesman1950

                          So, no evidence on the cameras then.

                        • GAU-8

                          https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/86b51025fdd49196d2b81b52e6a2ffae8a0263a13924178fdcdfe508875fcdfb.jpg

                          1 or 100,000 or 1,000,000 – Why do you like the Government spying on you?

                        • Bluesman1950

                          If an error factor of x1850 is acceptable to you I don’t see much point in trying to educate you further.

                        • GAU-8

                          So you enjoy sheeple-hood. Well, it is safe…you don’t have any of that freedom, liberty, thinking for yourself…..

                        • Bluesman1950

                          And you enjoy your 15 million gun homicides per year!

                          Oh, sorry, I might have exaggerated that by a factor of 1,850 or so, but a silly insult should help you forget.

                        • GAU-8

                          did you say “baaaaah” because that is what it sounds like

                        • Bluesman1950

                          “did you say “baaaaah” because that is what it sounds like”
                          As I said, a silly insult should help you forget!

                          Try taking your fingers out of your ears.

                        • Bluesman1950

                          It would if you keep your fingers in your ears.

                        • Bluesman1950

                          Perhaps we just like to follow you!
                          “There are an estimated 30 million surveillance cameras now deployed in the United States shooting 4 billion hours of footage a week. Americans are being watched, all of us, almost everywhere.”
                          http://www.popularmechanics.com/military/a2398/4236865/

                        • GAU-8

                          You are really boiled aren’t you? First, you have to admit all your gun control efforts have had no effect on violent crime. Then you were forced to face reality…your violent crime rate is higher than the US.

                          And I think I hear the lady singing. So, goodbye….I think that is all she wrote.

                        • Bluesman1950

                          “First, you have to admit all your gun control efforts have had no effect on violent crime.”
                          Apart from a murder rate 1/5th of yours and a firearms homicide rate 1/68th yours last year!

                          “Then you were forced to face reality…your violent crime rate is higher than the US.”
                          Which surprisingly produces only half the homicides without firearms and around half the hospital admissions! We must just not be as good at violence as you, or perhaps we are tougher.

                          So, why do you let your government spy on you with those 30 million cameras? That’s what you think happens in the UK, so what’s different in the ‘Land of the Free’? Obviously you need some to keep an eye on your massively bloated prison population, but what about the rest of them?

                          “And I think I hear the lady singing.”
                          She’s probably just shouting “Don’t shoot!”

                        • GAU-8

                          UK…1% of the world’s population but 20% of the world’s cctv.

                          BSIA analyisis.

                        • Bluesman1950

                          USA 30 million. That must give you about 60%

                        • GAU-8

                          And the nation of Brasil has a rate 7x greater than the US with some of the world’s harshest gun laws.

                          And a gun per capita rate on par with the UK.

                          So all you can really conclude is that your gun laws had no affect on your violent crime rates.

                        • Bluesman1950

                          That may be all you can conclude, but thinking is hardly your strong point is it?

                          Is “Brasil” anywhere near Brazil? I hadn’t heard of it before.

                        • Two Americas

                          Thanks for the “up vote” acknowledgments elsewhere, Bluesman1950. Keep up the good work.

                        • GAU-8

                          No the real comfort is watching you squirm…..UK gun control fail, higher violent crime rates….world leader in cctv surveillance…to no avail…rape gangs…and Twitter police to make sure you don’t say anything hateful….

                        • Bluesman1950

                          “UK gun control fail,”
                          “21 UK firearms homicides vs 8,124 in the USA a failure?

                          “higher violent crime rates.”
                          But only in your made-up fantasy table.

                          “world leader in cctv surveillance.”
                          I think that title belongs to the 30,000,000 cameras in the USA.

                          “rape gangs”
                          Who have been arrested and imprisoned, unlike the USA where rape is kept secret by your homicidal police forces.

                          The USA has the worst homicide rate of any major country in the developed world, despite imprisoning massively more of its citizens than anywhere else and making some of them effective slaves, as allowed by the 13th Amendment.

                          I wonder how much better you will be under President Trumpski, elected by a minority of your citizens?

                          Land of the Free! That’s a laugh.

                        • GAU-8

                          I forgot your special logic….being stabbed is far better than being shot. Having your young girls sexually assaulted is far better than being able to defend yourself. https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/b9ab0cdc868d016175ae8fa796844d68e9190f0a72016a0beec3ce6f4ff15218.jpg

                        • Bluesman1950

                          Oh dear! If you are going to try to quote statistics you need a better source than an 8 year-old article in the Daily Mail, accompanied in the poster by the bloodstained knife !

                          “Having your young girls sexually assaulted is far better than being able to defend yourself.”
                          So should we arm all young girls with guns or knives to allow them to defend themselves? If so, how do we prevent potential offenders getting their hands on the same weapons and using them to carry out their crimes, as they do in the USA?

                          If you actually read the Crime Survey, which it claims to quote, you will see that there were
                          25,993 offences of homicide, attempted murder, threats to kill, actual and grievous bodily harm,
                          robbery, rape, and sexual assault involving knives, not 130,000. Further only 11,683 of those offences involved murder or injury.
                          http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/20160105160709/http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/dcp171778_349849.pdf Page 45

                          “(English) Hospital admissions for assault with a sharp instrument peaked at 5,720 in 2006/07. Admissions have declined since that year, and in the year ending March 2013 there were 3,833 admissions, a 15% decrease on the previous year. Admissions for assault with a sharp instrument in 2012/13 were the lowest since 2002/03”
                          ibid Page 47.

                          Quite where the author or headline writer got the 130,000, from, is a matter of conjecture. The source quoted refutes it comprehensively.

                          So that’s not 130,000 ‘knife attacks’ per year it is 25,993 crimes involving knives, only 11,683 involving actual harm, an exaggeration of 900%!

                          “I forgot your special logic….being stabbed is far better than being shot.”
                          Allowing for population differences you were nearly 7 times more likely to be stabbed to death in the USA than the UK.

                          In England and Wales in 2014 there were 41 homicides committed by use of a knife or sharp instrument.
                          https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/crimeandjustice/bulletins/crimeinenglandandwales/2015-04-23#offences-involving-knives-and-sharp-instruments
                          In the USA however, 1,595 homicides were committed by Knives or cutting instruments in 2015.
                          https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2015/crime-in-the-u.s.-2015/tables/expanded_homicide_data_table_8_murder_victims_by_weapon_2011-2015.xls

                          I prefer the UK solution of not being either shot or stabbed!

                          .

                        • GAU-8

                          I see Halifax and Bradford have been added to the list of cities with known gangs raping and “grooming” scores of teenage girls.

                          I see similar stories in Rochdale, guess we just add them to Rotherham.

                          But I guess an extra few hundred per 100,000 rapes, assaults, burglaries and robberies is worth it.

                        • Bluesman1950

                          Keep trying to deflect. You have no idea what is going unreported in the USA.

                          How many toddlers shot dead in the UK lately?

                        • GAU-8
                        • Bluesman1950

                          The table you made up based on your misinterpretation of the under-reported FBI figures? Yes, that is really convincing!

                        • GAU-8

                          Now based on VOX…and a story about deaths in police custody…you are fabricating a new rationale? Does that fantasy cover the full 250% difference and the U.K. government’s self admitted under reporting? https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/6cffa29c56435bd09a8ffc91770bed06ae4be6be448272c17457d5ade64a9497.jpg

                        • Bluesman1950

                          I take it you have heard of the straw man fallacy?

                          Britain is no more ‘gun-free’ having banned handguns than you are murder-free, rape-free or heroin-free in the USA, although I believe that all those things are still illegal.

                          We just, however, have very few guns and very few gun murders.

                        • GAU-8

                          But lots of violence, yeah…I got that.

                        • Bluesman1950

                          Sorry, did I forget, a lot less violence than you.

                        • GAU-8
                        • Bluesman1950

                          Again, substituting insult for argument is typical of you and your gun-obsessed compatriots. Still, I suppose it keeps you happy.

                        • GAU-8

                          You have no argument, as evidenced by the little rabbit holes you jump down.

                          1. UK gun control laws had zero effect on violent crime.

                          2. Your violent crime rate is higher.

                        • GAU-8
                        • Bluesman1950

                          Indeed some of the numbers aren’t right, very far from it, but you’ve never let that stop you before! Your intent is clear but lying does you no credit.

                          There is not a ‘total gun ban’ in the UK. There were 738,797 firearm and shotgun certificates (on issue) as at 31 March 2015.
                          https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/firearm-and-shotgun-certificates-in-england-and-wales-financial-year-ending-march-2015/firearm-and-shotgun-certificates-in-england-and-wales-financial-year-ending-march-2015#firearm-certificates.

                          The USA only counts homicides and aggravated assaults in the FBI figures, along with rape and robbery. It does not include simple assaults. It also only includes the figures reported to it, voluntarily by police forces. There is no estimation possible, or even allowed, as to the accuracy or completeness of any of the figures supplied.

                          The UK includes all ‘violence’ including what would be counted as simple assault in the USA and ignored. All reports are scrutinised by HMIC.
                          Murder
                          Manslaughter
                          Corporate manslaughter
                          Infanticide
                          Attempted murder
                          Intentional destruction of viable unborn child
                          Causing death by dangerous driving
                          Causing death by careless driving when under the influence of drink or drugs
                          Causing death by careless or inconsiderate driving
                          Causing death by dangerous or careless driving
                          More serious wounding or other act endangering life
                          Inflicting grievous bodily harm (GBH) with intent
                          Use of substance or object to endanger life
                          Possession of items to endanger life
                          Assault with intent to cause serious harm
                          Endangering life
                          Endangering railway passengers
                          Endangering life at sea
                          Inflicting grievous bodily harm (GBH) without intent
                          Racially or religiously aggravated inflicting GBH without intent
                          Causing death by aggravated vehicle taking
                          Causing or allowing death of child or vulnerable person
                          Causing death by driving: unlicensed or disqualified or uninsured drivers
                          Less serious wounding
                          Actual bodily harm (ABH) and other injury
                          Racially or religiously aggravated less serious wounding
                          Racially or religiously aggravated ABH or other injury
                          Poisoning or female genital mutilation
                          Assault with injury
                          Racially or religiously aggravated assault with injury
                          Threat or conspiracy to murder
                          Conspiracy to murder
                          Threats to kill
                          Harassment
                          Racially or religiously aggravated harassment
                          Stalking
                          Cruelty to and neglect of children
                          Cruelty to children/young persons
                          Abandoning a child under the age of two years
                          Child abduction
                          Procuring illegal abortion
                          Kidnapping
                          Assault without injury on a constable
                          Assault without Injury
                          Racially or religiously aggravated assault without injury
                          https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/crimeandjustice/compendium/focusonviolentcrimeandsexualoffences/yearendingmarch2015/chapter1overviewofviolentcrimeandsexualoffences#extent-of-violent-crime

                          UK total crime per 100,000 in 2011 was 7,572, not 10,872 and that includes the vastly greater number of offences recorded by Britain as ‘Violent’. Exclude all UK equivalents of ‘simple assault’ as the USA does and the rate would be 6,447. As to the USA, who knows? Certainly not the FBI.
                          https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/116417/hosb1011.pdf

                          No. 28 in the world for gun homicides per capita. Well done USA! There are only 168 countries with a lower rate than you. What a shining example. Being safer than Honduras, Jamaica, Guatemala, Colombia, Mexico Brazil and South Africa is such an achievement. Pity that you are around 25 times more likely to be shot dead than in 22 other high income countries.
                          http://www.amjmed.com/article/S0002-9343(15)01030-X/fulltext

                          Strangely, it doesn’t seem to help that you have the highest proportion of your citizens in the world in prison!
                          The United States has the highest prison population rate in the world, 716 per 100,000 of the national population, over 7 times the rate of Europe.
                          http://www.prisonstudies.org/sites/default/files/resources/downloads/wppl_10.pdf

                          You might want to familiarise yourself with these statistics and stop your propaganda campaign of fear and lies.

                        • GAU-8

                          Wow, that was a ton of bullshit.

                          Didn’t change the facts.

                          Your gun control had zero effect on violent crime.

                          Your violent crime rate is higher, even when I use your data source for violent crimes, which lumped US aggravated and simple assault together.

                          https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/479f11058357baaef245840e7a8a246c5ee8202e086ecfce8882f6815d6d7f3b.jpg

                        • Bluesman1950

                          I know, all those long words and figures. It must be very tough for you.

                          “..even when I use your data source for violent crimes, which lumped US aggravated and simple assault together.”
                          Which is what you do with ours!

                          So, at last, you admit the table is not from our government, but just something you made up yourself! Well done. Gold star on the Christmas tree for you!

                        • GAU-8

                          UK twice the total violent crime rate. There fixed it

                        • GAU-8

                          Idiot …Your data source was a magazine article.

                          Boy if only there wasn’t table P1 in ons.gov.uk and fbi ucr table 1.

                          You know the one that peg your violent crime rate at about 2x

                        • Bluesman1950

                          And if only your link actually took you to the page to which you refer rather than just the front page of the ONS including GDP, employment rates, population etc.. Or were you referring to https://www.ons.gov.uk/search?q=P1 economic resources and outputs?

                          Come on, I’m sure you can learn how to post actual links.

                        • GAU-8

                          Thanks, so you now say it’s “other factors?” Thanks for agreeing with me finally that gun control laws have no effect.

                        • Bluesman1950

                          No, I’m pointing out that your link is simply to the front page of the ONS, not to the information you pretend to have.

                          Thanks for agreeing with me finally that gun control laws prevent us having anywhere near the same levels of homicide as you.

                        • GAU-8

                          Since you had the same levels before your gun bans and confiscation and restriction binge you are once again, wrong.

                        • Bluesman1950

                          Half yours in 1900, 1/5th in 2000!

                        • GAU-8

                          Is shot to death any deader than stabbed, bludgeoned, or strangled to death?

                          Our are you another liberal idiot that believes defenseless victims make criminals harmless and banning lawful ownership keeps criminals from breaking the law and having illegal weapons.

                          I’m done with you for the year…Have a merry Christmas

                        • Bluesman1950

                          “Is shot to death any deader than stabbed, bludgeoned, or strangled to death?”
                          No but 9,616 shot to death is a lot more bodies than the 118 there would have been if you had the same rate of firearms homicide as Britain.
                          As 1,544 stabbed in the USA is 502 more bodies than the 1,042 who would have died if you had the same rate of knife homicide as Britain.
                          2,295 murdered by all other means in the USA is also over 30% more than the 1,736 who would have been killed if you had the same overall rate in those categories as Britain.
                          https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2015/crime-in-the-u.s.-2015/tables/expanded_homicide_data_table_8_murder_victims_by_weapon_2011-2015.xls
                          https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/crimeandjustice/compendium/focusonviolentcrimeandsexualoffences/yearendingmarch2015/chapter2homicide#method-of-killing

                          The ‘less-violent’ USA is ahead of Britain in virtually every category of homicide, by whatever means you chose to examine. Strange that!

                          “Our (sic) are you another liberal idiot that believes defenseless victims make criminals harmless and banning lawful ownership keeps criminals from breaking the law and having illegal weapons.”
                          No, I am someone with 30 years of UK police experience who realises that having laws restricting the availability of weapons means that they are rarely used in crime, keeping our deaths and serious injuries to levels far lower than those in the armed and paranoid USA.

                          Agreed, time to hang up our weapons for this year. Enjoy Saturnalia.

                        • OHJonesy

                          You, my friend, have the patience of a saint. I applaud your willingness to attempt to teach the unteachable, I gave up on the closed minds of those two dimwitted Brits long ago.

                          But I’m really just here to wish you and your family a Merry Christmas, and best wishes for a Happy and Healthy New Year!

                        • GAU-8

                          Merry Christma & Happy New Years.

                          I see the FATCA boy and Irishman ran away. Off to preach tax law and atheism somewhere else. Now doughboy is all alone to play the liberal denial and stratification game.

                          It’s almost as much fun as watching liberal heads explode over the long due demise of Hillary

                        • GAU-8

                          So shot dead is different than stabbed or bludgeoned to death?

                          And now income is a discriminatory factor? So what happened to gun laws? Oh that’s right, no matter how you cut it there is no correlation between gun laws and violent crime. It’s time to learn what a main effect, and statistical significance are.

                        • Bluesman1950

                          No they are all fatal. All those methods of murder are far more likely in the USA than the UK. Massively more in the case of shooting.

                          “And now income is a discriminatory factor?”
                          I’m sure you can be proud of being less homicidal than most third world countries. Just a shame that you can’t keep up with the developed world.

                        • GAU-8

                          Yeah, if we were an island nation, not even the size of Montana, with really just close access on one side to other nations with very similar populations. And yet your total violent crime rate is higher than us.

                          But thanks for agreeing with me regarding gun control laws having no effect on violent crime.

                        • Bluesman1950

                          “Yeah, if we were an island nation, not even the size of Montana, with really just close access on one side to other nations with very similar populations”
                          Those Canadians must really cause you a lot of problems!

                          Thanks for agreeing with me that our gun laws keep us safe from the massive levels of firearms homicides you have in the USA.

                        • GAU-8

                          Massive? And do you think your pinky is 12 inches long too?

                          0.00003 fraction vs. 0.001 violent crime difference… how do you hyperbolize that difference?

                        • Bluesman1950

                          You don’t understand the figures.

                        • GAU-8

                          CSEW. 95,482 sexual offenses, up 41% …..lets see…we have 6x the population….that would be UK has 200% the rate….

                          Hardly think a 0.000035 fraction difference is a slaughter.

                          But hey whats a 25% increase in violence against persons when you have disarmed the law abiding?

                          Tell me, did your criminals just line up to hand in their illegal weapons?

                        • Bluesman1950

                          “Hardly think a 0.000035 fraction difference is a slaughter.”
                          That sounds so trivial compared with 500% the rate of the UK doesn’t it!

                          “Tell me, did your criminals just line up to hand in their illegal weapons?”
                          Maybe not, but they were only used 21 times in a year to murder people, a rate 1/68th of yours. In fact your US police kill people at a per capita rate over 8 times as high as British criminals do!

                        • GAU-8

                          Why would anyone assaulting an officer be surprised when they lose?

                          Break into my home…and they’d get the same response.

                        • Bluesman1950

                          Of course, everybody shot by US police is a dangerous potential killer! Hardly any of them are unarmed, or dementia patients with crucifixes, or carers sitting in the road with their hands up etc.

                          Strangely both I and probably all of my colleagues have been assaulted on numerous occasions throughout their service. Neither I nor anybody I know has ever killed or even seriously injured anybody.

                          Strange when your police are a greater danger to the public than our murderers.

                        • GAU-8

                          Time for a new rabbit hole Sparky. Remember what the original conversation was? Let me remind you. Your gun control laws have had zero impact on your violent crime rate. Your violent crime rate is 2 times that of the United States.

                        • Bluesman1950

                          But it’s not is it. You know that but can’t back down, having tied yourself to that lie.

                          Still no explanation from you as to why Britain, being allegedly more violent than the USA has around 20% of the homicides and less than 60% of hospital admissions, per capita, of the USA

                        • GAU-8

                          No rationale for why your violent crime rate is higher????

                          The only thing you can barely attempt to cling too is cherry picked stratified tidbits.

                          Poor little sheep..

                        • Bluesman1950

                          “No rationale for why your violent crime rate is higher????”
                          Still no explanation from you as to why Britain, being allegedly more violent than the USA has around 20% of the homicides and less than 60% of hospital admissions, per capita, of the USA.

                          “The only thing you can barely attempt to cling too is cherry picked stratified tidbits.”
                          Except your massive homicide rate and hospital admission rate following assaults twice ours.

                        • GAU-8

                          Massive. 0.00003 difference in criminal homicide fraction. Still no answer why you have twice the total violent crime rate?

                        • Bluesman1950

                          “Massive. 0.00003 difference in criminal homicide fraction.”

                          That doesn’t sound as bad as ‘5 times more likely to be murdered’ does it.

                        • GAU-8

                          Well given the FBI UCR includes justified homicides by police and civilians it’s not 5x…unless you are in the habit of committing criminal acts. And given 51% of “victims” are also thugs (gangs, drug dealers, convicted felons) the real difference even less)…in fact, when you peel away the factors overlooked in all gun control boy studies the law abiding citizens odds are well below 0.00001.

                        • Bluesman1950

                          “Your gun control laws have had zero impact on your violent crime rate.”
                          Doesn’t homicide count as ‘violent crime’?

                          “Your violent crime rate is 2 times that of the United States.”
                          Only in your imagination and on your made-up little table!

                        • GAU-8

                          Sure, and you were at 1.0 in 1900 and the same number 110 years later. Hint, that is zero effect.

                        • Bluesman1950

                          “Sure, and you were at 1.0 in 1900 and the same number 110 years later. Hint, that is zero effect.”
                          While your homicide rate climbed to 460% 110 years later. Hint, that is a massive increase. Why didn’t your ability to defend yourselves with guns prevent that?

                        • GAU-8

                          So based on your argument since our laws actually did get more restrictive then we could argue that gun control has no effect or has the effect to increase violent crime what do you think?

                        • Bluesman1950

                          We both have our laws. Ours to restrict gun possession, yours to allow them to be carried.

                          Over a century our homicide rate increased by 88%, yours by 360% over the same period.

                          What do you think?

                        • GAU-8

                          You continue to prove my point. Gun control laws have no impact on crime rates. Thanks for finally seeing the light.

                        • GAU-8

                          Even UK idio…I mean progressives fall for MSM lies?

                        • Bluesman1950

                          Like the FBI and the CIA too you mean? They must be really gullible!

                        • GAU-8

                          LORETTA LYNCH: There’s a number of things we do, some of which we talk about publicly, some that we don’t talk about publicly, in terms of investigation and the responses that we have.
                          This was a grave concern to us, so we began in the summer to look at what we could say publicly about this issue, and that is why you saw the intelligence community release its report in October, before the election. Letting the American people know that the intelligence community had determined that Russia was behind the hacks [of the DNC] itself. The investigation is ongoing, certainly the review is continuing. We rarely do that kind of public attribution, but it was important in that instance because the election effects everyone.
                          It is not a matter of the results, it is peoples’ faith in the integrity of the system. At the same time, the Department of Homeland Security was involved in reaching out to every state to make sure that they had access to every resource they needed to protect the state electoral system as well.
                          Fortunately we didn’t see the sort of technical interference that I know people had concerns about, also, in terms of voting machines and the like. But a lot of education and training went on about that, and a significant number of states did reach out to DHS and talk to them about these issues.

                          Yes….the Sheeple eat up every report the MSM spoon feeds them.

                        • Bluesman1950

                          “Letting the American people know that the intelligence community had determined that Russia was behind the hacks [of the DNC] itself. ”
                          So are you saying that she was lying?

                        • Mike Breen

                          “”Enjoy serfdom your masters are proud””.

                          Says the entirely owned property of the USA! You are not even free to leave!

                        • GAU-8

                          You are still here….I thought you dried up and blew away.

                        • GAU-8

                          Why the F**k would I want to leave? To go to socialist EU – UK? How are those poor refugee “grooming gangs” working out….

                          https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/8923a3be5464794f0f1224cf8ca4dc7f8194792302e4d4a06a7276b96314c22c.jpg

                          at least here I can help them speak directly to their God.

                          https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/c746f161b48e56dfcde4ea0874536b5dc02209ed2aafa29aeed5b7d31500b7b9.jpg

                        • GAU-8
                        • jarhead1982

                          Says the tax slave pedo

                        • GAU-8
                        • GAU-8

                          And where there is really serious injury the offence charged should generally be GBH.

                        • Bluesman1950

                          “Well, look (sic) like your skepitical (sic) boy agree with me…”
                          If only you had read to the bottom of the page! Then you might have read the correction to that figure:
                          “Update #5 (1/16): In his correction to his earlier report, Ben Swann quoted this article extensively, including my estimate of 776 violent crimes per capita for England and Wales. It should be noted, however, that this is the highest estimate I calculated, although the one I made in the initial post. I suspect it is an overestimation, and the true figure is likely to be closer to the low-end estimate of 271. ”
                          Looks like he actually agrees with me.

                          That ratio of 271/403, 67%, which chimes reasonably closely with the CDC figures of hospital assault admissions.
                          England, May 2014-April 2015 133,896 = 244 per 100K.
                          USA 2014 – 1,485,674 = 465 per 100K.
                          https://webappa.cdc.gov/sasweb/ncipc/nfirates2001.html
                          https://webappa.cdc.gov/cgi-bin/broker.exe
                          http://content.digital.nhs.uk/catalogue/PUB17966
                          http://content.digital.nhs.uk/catalogue/PUB17966/prov-mont-hes-admi-outp-ae-April%202015-toi-rep.pdf

                          244/ 465 = 52% So Britons go to hospital following violent assault at only 52% the rate of Americans. And before you try whining that the CDC figures do not separate out ‘victims’ of justifiable self-defence, neither do the English!

                          Try this one:
                          “You are thus 6.9x (241.05 / 34.7) more likely to suffer aggravated assault in the US than in the UK.”
                          https://dispellingthemythukvsusguns.wordpress.com/

                          Still no news of your evidence for ‘1 arrest per 1.85 million cameras’ yet. Nor any explanation why our recorded homicide rate increased 88% over the 20th century, whilst yours increased 360% in the same period, to 5 times ours? Why so quiet?

                          You can continue to pretend that black is white and up is down as long as you like, you cannot hide the truth shown in the facts.

                        • GAU-8

                          You mean where he arbitrarily cut the numbers? Yeah that’s a real data point. Should I buy him a set of dice to roll too?

                        • Bluesman1950

                          “You mean where he arbitrarily cut the numbers? ”
                          No I meant the bit where he corrected the quote, which only included the highest possible number, and substituted it for the more accurate estimate. Sorry if your brain gets too tired to read everything on a page. It’s so much easier just to read what you want to hear isn’t it.
                          Can I take it you don’t think he agrees with you now?

                          So, have the dice you roll told you why your recorded homicide rate more than quadrupled whilst ours less than doubled?
                          Have they told you where to find your source for the ‘1 arrest for 1.85 million cameras’ joke?
                          Have they clarified how, even discounting all homicides with firearms, Americans still manage to murder people at twice the rate of the British by other means?

                          Keep rolling and see if any inspiration turns up.

                        • GAU-8

                          This would be the highest number sheep. He fudged the numbers, something you UK cops are all too familiar with.

                          https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/ab88da63d98adb00539e5997283b272524fcc8972012987b565893962933f6da.jpg

                        • Bluesman1950

                          “In 2014, U.S. residents age 12 or older experienced an estimated 5.4 million violent victimizations.”
                          https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/cv14.pdf
                          That’s actually 1,687 per 100,000, not 466

                        • GAU-8

                          No your total rate is 2,000 …. both your government and that wingnut have it apples to apples at 760 to 280

                        • Bluesman1950

                          No they don’t, but keep lying.

                          Any news on the ‘1 arrest per 1,850,000 cameras’ source yet? It’s such an impressive ‘statistic’ that it must be easy to verify. Unless it’s just another of your lies.

                        • GAU-8
                        • Bluesman1950

                          Reposting the same lie doesn’t make it any more true.

                        • GAU-8

                          Talk to your Government….this is even after the “fudging” downward

                          http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-30081682

                          “More than 800,000 – or one in five – of all crimes reported to the police each year are not being recorded by officers, a report suggests.

                          The problem is greatest for victims of violent crime, with a third going unrecorded. Of sexual offences, 26% are not recorded.

                          An HM Inspectorate of Constabulary report looked at more than 8,000 reports of crime in England and Wales.

                          The watchdog said the failure to record crime properly was “indefensible”.

                          Home Secretary Theresa May described the findings as “utterly unacceptable””

                        • Bluesman1950

                          So let’s see the results of the US inspectorate of police forces. There is one isn’t there?

                        • GAU-8

                          So your retort is no retort?

                          You really ought to read our Constitution….

                        • Bluesman1950

                          That’s right. Your police forces all do their own individual thing with no overall control as to how well they are doing it. You don’t even know how many people they kill each year. No wonder they get away with so much.

                        • GAU-8

                          Figured the sheep in you fails to understand how a Federated Republic works…..

                        • bruised orange

                          Merry Christmas GAU-8. Buy some Christmas miracle I am back posting, or Disqus FUBAR more like. Keep fighting the good fight mate all the best in 2017!

                        • GAU-8

                          Welcome back.

                        • Bluesman1950

                          17,000 law enforcement agencies with no transparency, no oversight of how they behave or even how many people they kill. Federal government seems somewhat slack. I suppose you just have to hope that your police are doing everything right.

                        • Bluesman1950

                          “Figured the sheep in you fails to understand how a Federated Republic works…..”
                          Your police forces just do their own thing and nobody knows what it is. The Federal government can’t even ask apparently. Sounds easier than actually keeping track of their policies and performance, as long as you are happy to be kept in the dark.

                        • GAU-8

                          National oversight doesn’t help you 20% of the time or with massive cover-ups……Rotherham ring a bell.

                        • Bluesman1950

                          National oversight is how under-reporting comes to light and is rectified.

                          20%? In the USA 50% of killings by police are not reported to the FBI! Who knows what else is kept quiet. Perhaps you need a little oversight and scrutiny.
                          http://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2016/10/14/13280906/police-force-data-fbi

                          Still, easier not to look, then you won’t find anything nasty will you.

                        • GAU-8

                          LOL….vox

                        • Bluesman1950

                          https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2016/10/05/2016-24173/agency-information-collection-activities-proposed-ecollection-ecomments-requested-a-newly-approved

                          “If the program is extended beyond the pilot to include all US departments, it will face a major limitation: reporting the data to the FBI will remain voluntary. This means that many police departments could simply opt out of reporting altogether and skew the national count. Voluntary reporting has been a significant constraint on past attempts to count police use of force.

                          A DoJ spokesman explained that mandating police departments to report use of force data via the FBI’s online portal would require an act of Congress. In 2014, Congress did pass the Death in Custody Reporting Act, which mandates states and federal agencies to report in-custody deaths or risk losing federal funding. But that law has never been enforced, and doesn’t apply to non-lethal uses of force.

                          Previous attempts by the FBI have relied on local police departments’ voluntary adherence to a scheme attempting to collect data only on “justifiable homicides”. In 2014 the FBI recorded just 444 of these deaths, a figure that was widely regarded as unreliable as hundreds of departments failed to report their records. In 2015, the Guardian recorded 1,146 fatalities. The Counted has logged 847 deaths so far in 2016.

                          “I don’t have the power to require people to supply us with data,” the FBI director, James Comey, said in 2015, in the wake of harsh criticism of the bureau’s flawed count.”
                          https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/oct/13/fbi-police-use-of-force-data-obama-administration

                          LOL FBI

                        • GAU-8

                          Yes, welcome to the United States of America…..a Federal Republic with a very clear Constitution. The Federal Government can’t force the States, even by law – it’s called commandeering and the Supreme Court has ruled it unconstitutional.

                          But please continue down your little rabbit hole.

                          Meanwhile:

                          1. UK gun control has had no effect on violent crime.
                          2. UK violent crime rate exceeds the US
                          3. We have, among many inalienable rights, the right to keep and bear arms.

                        • Bluesman1950

                          “The Federal Government can’t force the States, even by law – ”
                          Agreed, you have a nation of over 17,000 law enforcement agencies, killing around 1,000 citizens per year, with no effective overall supervision or scrutiny.

                          “1. UK gun control has had no effect on violent crime.”
                          Just a murder rate 1/5th of yours.

                          “2. UK violent crime rate exceeds the US”
                          Only in your fairytale imagination

                          “3. We have, among many inalienable rights, the right to keep and bear arms.”
                          And you use them to kill each other, including small children, by the thousands.

                        • GAU-8

                          So, you are now ignoring your own Government’s data? I guess it’s true….once you turn sheeple you cant go back https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/479f11058357baaef245840e7a8a246c5ee8202e086ecfce8882f6815d6d7f3b.jpg

                        • Bluesman1950

                          Which part of the UK government posted that table? Please post the full link, unless you just made it up yourself!

                        • GAU-8

                          ONS.GOV.UK. I noticed the more thruthful the data the harder you work to refute…feel bad about more violent crime and allowing yourself to be disarmed? Sheeple

                        • Bluesman1950

                          Just a pity you can’t find the link eh!

                        • GAU-8

                          https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/53a73d36abd3872bb6066d717ccea47558d9e569eeed0959869872b191f70b39.jpg

                          Liberal, progressive sheeple defense again? Buuuuuut maaaaaah government tells meeeee I’m saaaafe, baaaaaah

                        • Bluesman1950

                          “Buuuuuut maaaaaah government tells meeeee I’m saaaafe, baaaaaah”
                          In my case it’s over 60 years living in the UK and 30 years as a police officer not needing to carry a gun that tells me how safe I am.

                          Still can’t find the link that you imagined to the ‘ONS table’ that you made up I see. Silly boy.

                        • GAU-8

                          Dont ever change sheep, trust what Government spoon feeds you…they’d never lie…

                        • Bluesman1950

                          I trust my experience against your reliance on the Daily Mail to know what the UK is like.

                        • GAU-8

                          Been to the UK many times….and now you think ons.gov.uk is a rag?

                        • Bluesman1950

                          So obviously going to the UK is just as valid as living here all your life and policing its streets for 30 years!

                          “and now you think ons.gov.uk is a rag?”
                          No it is a reliable source of statistical information, from which you extract figures and then dishonestly pretend to compare them with entirely different statistics from the USA. The Daily Mail is a rag though.

                        • GAU-8

                          Wrong, boring little sheep. Maybe Santa week bring you a book on critical thinking skills.

                          Remember:

                          1. UK gun control had no effect on violent crime.

                          2. UK violent crime rate is higher.

                        • Bluesman1950

                          Since both of those assertions are unsubstantiated lies, I don’t think I will bother trying to remember them.

                        • GAU-8

                          Do you rape women different in the UK? Do you stab people different? Because your knife assault rate alone is about the same as our total aggravated assault rate.

                        • Bluesman1950

                          Our knife assault rate is less than yours, as evidenced by your knife homicides! Don’t take the Daily Mail too seriously.

                        • GAU-8

                          No but you said the ons.gov.uk was a valid source. So I assume you take the British Crime Survey as valid too.

                          The British Crime Survey figure of 130,000 knife attacks is substantially higher than the police’s figure. This is thought to be because many victims never report being threatened with a knife – and even assaults needing hospital treatment go unrecorded.

                          The British Crime Survey, based on interviews with thousands of households across the UK.

                        • Bluesman1950

                          The Crime Survey for England and Wales (previously called the British Crime Survey)[1] is a systematic victim study, currently carried out by BMRB Limited on behalf of the Home Office

                          From the British Crime Survey
                          “There were a total of 27,487 offences involving a knife or sharp instrument that were recorded by the police in the year ending September 2015. Of these offences, 188 (less than 1%) were homicides and 27,299 were made up of other selected offences such as attempted murder and threats to kill.”
                          https://www.ons.gov.uk/aboutus/transparencyandgovernance/freedomofinformationfoi/knifecrime

                          If you have a link to the actual survey showing ‘130,000’, rather than screaming headlines,show it.

                        • GAU-8

                          I guess you can do that, and dismiss what your own Government official said, but it doesn’t change this:

                          Your gun control had zero effect on violent crime.

                          Your violent crime rate is greater than the US.

                          But continue little sheep…Your master is proud of his little subject.

                        • GAU-8

                          Well that makes no sense. Not when your assault rate nearly 200 times our homicide rate. But yo take the ONS British Crime Survey seriously…

                        • Bluesman1950

                          “Not when your assault rate nearly 200 times our homicide rate.”

                          I agree that there are, per capita, probably more people shoved and uninjured in the UK than are murdered in the USA, but I’m not sure what you think that proves.

                          There are probably, per capita, far more fender-bender car accidents in the USA than there are fatal collisions in the UK, is that what proves your roads are more dangerous than ours?

                        • GAU-8

                          Still not making any sense….unless your intent was to discredit your original statement. Letting the single malt speak for you is never wise.

                        • Bluesman1950

                          As much sense as you comparing our assaults to your homicides!
                          Perhaps you should include our rates of bicycle thefts!

                          “But yo (sic) take the ONS British Crime Survey seriously..”
                          I do.
                          “.in the latest year the police recorded 29,306 offences involving a knife or sharp instrument,”
                          https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/crimeandjustice/bulletins/crimeinenglandandwales/yearendingjune2016#latest-violent-crime-figures-present-a-complex-picture

                          So let’s see your link to the ‘130,000’.

                        • GAU-8

                          https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/eeaf7dba9a5d9ca44cd2b584add6c23084860461735c3af5815e17144c622f30.png

                          But.

                          1. Your gun control had no effect on your violent crimes

                          2. Your violent crime rate is higher.

                          3. I’m bored with you, and must ignore you.

                        • Bluesman1950

                          So, not one single link to one single piece of evidence! Just unsubstantiated assertions and a pointless cartoon.

                          Just one thing, why is it that our terrible British violence so rarely ends in death? Like our ‘130,000 knife attacks’, that only killed 181 people last year? A fatality rate of 0.00139.

                          In the USA, on the other hand 1544 people were stabbed to death. Does that mean that you have 1.5 times as many knife attacks as us? Adjusted for population that would be 1,108,500

                          Maybe you don’t have our levels of knife crime, but Americans are just much better at stabbing people than us, as you get more practice.

                        • GAU-8

                          Sense, you should try making some.

                        • Bluesman1950

                          Still no trace of that link to actual evidence of “130,000”. I wonder why?

                        • Bluesman1950

                          Links. You should try posting some.

                        • GAU-8

                          SN/SG/4304, 6 November 2012: CSEW 126,000 knife attacks.

                        • Bluesman1950

                          Including all those in which a knife was present but not actually used.

                          From the paper you quote “There were 4,490 people admitted to English hospitals in 2011/12 due to assault by a sharp object, the lowest number of admissions since 2002/03. The number of admissions has fallen in each of the last five years.”

                          So of those 126,000 ‘attacks’ around 6,000, 4.7%, were actual woundings (Table 3 , P 13) and only 3.5% required hospital treatment. Not quite so impressive really! There were 209 homicides by knife or sharp instrument.

                          In the same period in the USA there were 1,589 homicides and 123,344 aggravated assaults involving knives.
                          https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2012/crime-in-the-u.s.-2012/tables/15tabledatadecpdf

                          Adjusted for population differences, the US knife homicide rate is 35% higher than England and Wales. Still you manage to keep the numbers even higher by using guns for most of your murders.

                        • Paul

                          I would respectfully disagree 🙂

                        • GAU-8

                          Yeah, but when it says “go ahead, call him/her” or “go ahead, you can dance” it’s time to find a new friend, at least that’s what Mr. Guiness told me.

                        • Paul

                          Way too true brother. My Glenlivet dancing is a fright to behold.

                        • Bluesman1950

                          “Because your knife assault rate alone is about the same as our total aggravated assault rate.”
                          No, actually about 14%!

                          In the twelve months ending June 2012 there were 29,513 violent offences that
                          involved a knife or sharp instrument, but only 19,032 actual knife assaults.
                          https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=uk+knife+crime+statistics+2014&oq=uk+knife+crime+&aqs=chrome.3.69i57j0l3.5845j0j4&client=tablet-android-samsung&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8

                          There were an estimated 760,739 aggravated assaults in the nation in 2012.
                          https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2012/crime-in-the-u.s.-2012/violent-crime/aggravated-assault

                          See how proper links are done?

                        • GAU-8

                          https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/479f11058357baaef245840e7a8a246c5ee8202e086ecfce8882f6815d6d7f3b.jpg

                          Not a fantasy…your own data….UK ONS…but please ignore me sheep

                        • Bluesman1950

                          Not an ONS or FBI chart. Just made up by you fairytale boy.

                        • GAU-8

                          I know assembling and comparing data is difficult for sheeple such as yourself…..

                        • Bluesman1950

                          “Assembling and comparing data”
                          Making stuff up and pretending it’s from a reputable source? No, I don’t do that.

                        • Bluesman1950

                          25 shot dead yesterday in the USA, 49 shot and wounded.

                          Feel free to ‘assemble and compare’ the corresponding data from the UK, but do try not to pretend it is from a government source.

                        • GAU-8

                          Gotta love what liberal progressives have done to our cities…10% of the homicides 1% of the population. Local government has done wonders….

                          …yes it’s from your Government…deny it all you want sheep.

                          I thought you were ignoring me now I’m disappointed

                        • Bluesman1950

                          So please post those statistics for all the people shot in the UK on that day.

                          Here’s a statistic from your government …. deny it all you want sheep. 32,675

                        • GAU-8

                          That’s right you stab and rape….so much better….

                        • Bluesman1950

                          So, you don’t have any single instance of someone being shot in the UK that day. I wonder why that is.

                          Still, lets’s see the figures for all the stabbings and rapes in the UK 2 days ago. You obviously have them.

                        • GAU-8

                          Like the 350 or so that are subject to knife attacks in the UK every day?

                        • Bluesman1950

                          Let’s see the authoratitive evidence for that! The Daily Mail doesn’t count.

                        • Bluesman1950

                          To which, strangely, you cannot find the link!

                        • GAU-8
                        • Bluesman1950

                          I certainly despair of you ever backing up your nonsense with actual evidence. Still, if posting cartoons is the best you can do, it’s not really surprising.

                        • GAU-8
                        • Bluesman1950

                          We really are finding your levels of ‘argument’ now aren’t we!

                        • Mike Breen

                          A three year old died yesterday in a road rage incident. Just another one…

                        • jarhead1982

                          12 died 52 wounded by your goat fkkng gay luvers in Germany ban all trucks and muzzies

                        • GAU-8

                          Interesting, RTI never discloses where it gets its “total” from. But they are sure it’s 2,103. Right.

                        • GAU-8
                        • GAU-8

                          . I suspect it is an overestimation,…. That doesn’t read like a correction does it? He fudged the numbers sheep

                        • GAU-8

                          http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/20160105160709/http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/dcp171778_298904.pdf

                          Funny, your own government pegged the assault rate with ABH/GBH around his original number, you know where the injuries are serious enough to warrant a jail sentence greater than 6 months – far beyond minor.

                          That would put it about, like I said, around 2x the US…..maybe it is good you disarmed. An extra 270 per 100,000 assaults far exceeds 3.5 per 100,000 homicide difference.

                          And then add the rape rate difference…..

                        • Bluesman1950

                          You are obviously still confused about the difference between ABH and GBH and their comparison with Aggravated Assault and Simple Assault in the USA.

                          “Assault causing actual bodily harm (ABH) is a criminal offence under Section 47 of the Offences Against the Person Act. ABH involves assault or battery causing actual physical harm to the victim. The harm does not have to be serious, but must involve more than a shove to sustain a charge of ABH. Harm such as bruises, scratches and bite marks is sufficient”
                          http://www.inbrief.co.uk/offences/assault-gbh-abh/

                          Simple assault – Attack without a weapon resulting either in no injury, minor injury (for example, bruises, black eyes, cuts, scratches or swelling) or in undetermined injury requiring less than 2 days of hospitalization. Also includes attempted assault without a weapon
                          With minor injury – An attack without a weapon resulting in such injuries as bruises, black eyes, cuts or in undetermined injury requiring less than 2 days of hospitalization.
                          http://www.bjs.gov/index.cfm?ty=tp&tid=316

                          If you are going to count ABH then you need to count simple assaults in the USA, 3,318,920 in 2014
                          https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/cv14.pdf

                        • GAU-8

                          ABH also require the crime to be serious enough to warrant a six month jail sentence….sounds like more than a simple shove sheep

                        • Bluesman1950

                          A MAXIMUM 6 month jail sentence at magistrates court. Most result in a fine or non-custodial community sentence.

                        • GAU-8

                          Your assault and rape rates are higher….but keep on trying to spin t sheep…..

                        • Bluesman1950

                          Keep on lying and count the bodies!

                        • GAU-8
                        • GAU-8

                          Weasle all you want. Here is the violent crime comparison.

                          https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/479f11058357baaef245840e7a8a246c5ee8202e086ecfce8882f6815d6d7f3b.jpg

                          Then lets add on

                          UK home burglary rate of 1,453, & 57% if the time someone is home versus the US of 679, 27% of the time someone is home.

                          Then again we can defend ourselves….

                        • Bluesman1950

                          Again comparing the UK figures which include all assaults and the US ones which only include aggravated assaults is nonsense.

                          Interesting too that the table quotes ONS and FBI but doesn’t actually link to the sources which it is allegedly comparing. This is no evidence at all.

                        • GAU-8

                          Read the data.. your home burglary rate.

                          UK home burglary rate of 1,453, & 57% if the time someone is home versus the US of 679, 27% of the time someone is home.

                          And you are twice as likely to be home, seems criminals dint bother worrying about unarmed and defenseless sheep, of course the sheep can go to jail in the UK for disproportionate defense

                        • Bluesman1950

                          ” seems criminals dint (sic) bother worrying about unarmed and defenseless sheep, of course the sheep can go to jail in the UK for disproportionate defense.”
                          Another American myth! Keep making stuff up!

                          “Where you are defending yourself or others from intruders in your home, it might still be reasonable in the circumstances for you to use a degree of force that is subsequently considered to be disproportionate, perhaps if you are acting in extreme circumstances in the heat of the moment and don’t have a chance to think about exactly how much force would be necessary to repel the intruder: it might seem reasonable to you at the time but, with hindsight, your actions may seem disproportionate. The law will give you the benefit of the doubt in these circumstances.”
                          Section 76(5A) into the Criminal Justice and Immigration Act 2008.
                          https://www.cps.gov.uk/publications/prosecution/householders.html

                        • GAU-8

                          “any occupant of a dwelling is justified in using any degree of physical force, including deadly physical force, against another person when that other person has made an unlawful entry into the dwelling…”

                          There is NO need for benefit of the doubt. The law is clear.

                          https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/e740c290b0f4fad938f544093fb0e5b00b16d2a05e35577cd2ae675154ccce98.jpg

                        • Bluesman1950
                        • GAU-8

                          Here let me read the article for you..

                          The homeowner, 42-year-old Jeffrey Lovell, was arrested and charged with murder, according to the Chicopee Police Department.

                          Meanwhile…

                          “The resident, a 37-year-old woman, told police three men kicked in the front door, awakening her. One of the men came into her bedroom, put a gun to her head and raped her while the other two ransacked the home.

                          The two men left, but the robber assaulting her began beating her in the head with the gun and demanding money. The woman told her attacker that a neighbor down the street kept all her money. The robber then forced the woman down the street to the neighbor’s home on South 21st Street, the woman told police.

                          Once they walked there, the woman knocked and yelled for the neighbor’s attention, telling him she was being attacked. The neighbor, a 59-year-old man, looked out the window and called 911 to report a crime. The gunman yelled for the neighbor to get off the phone, shooting twice into the air. He then aimed his gun at the neighbor.

                          The neighbor fired one round at the offender, hitting him in the chest. The gunman ran a short distance, collapsed and died.”

                          or

                          “the man who was shot and killed is Warren County jail escapee Rafael McCloud.

                          Police said they responded to a burglary call around 7 a.m. They said the burglary took a man, his wife, and a 5-year-old child hostage at gunpoint. At some point there was an altercation and one of the adults shot McCloud. The man was injured during the struggle, but his wife and child were not hurt.

                          McCloud escaped the Warren County Jail on March 2. Sheriff Martin Pace said the 33-year-old held an employee hostage with a shank, took his pants and jacket. The sheriff said McCloud also took the jailer’s radio and keys. He escaped out of the side door.

                          McCloud was in jail for allegedly raping and killing 69-year-old Sharen Wilson last summer. Her body was found near the old Kuhn Memorial Hospital in Vicksburg in June 2015.”

                          OR

                          http://www.palestineherald.com/news/homeowner-fights-back-in-attempted-home-invasion/article_0a682cba-bcc0-11e6-8bb8-af6983f0fee3.html

                        • Bluesman1950

                          Well, it’s nice to know that justifiable homicides cancel out mistaken or unnecessary killings of innocent people. I’m sure the kid’s family will be most relieved.

                          It’s good that rapes can be prevented by the use of guns. Unfortunately, the rapists seem to have cottoned on to the fact that rapes can also be facilitated by the use of guns.
                          http://www.nola.com/crime/index.ssf/2016/10/suspect_accused_of_raping_woma.html
                          http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/brooklyn/brooklyn-woman-raped-gunpoint-stranger-home-article-1.2726400
                          http://pix11.com/2016/01/09/5-men-rape-18-year-old-girl-at-gunpoint-in-brownsville-playground-nypd/
                          http://kstp.com/news/st-paul-rape-charges-larry-griffin/4314823/

                        • GAU-8

                          CDC report to POTUS 2013. People who defend themselves with guns are less likely to be seriously injured than those who use other means or offer no defense.

                          And…..no matter which you you hacpve tried to squirm our violent crime rate is lower….rapes are much lower.

                        • Bluesman1950

                          “CDC report to POTUS 2013. People who defend themselves with guns are less likely to be seriously injured than those who use other means or offer no defense.”
                          No link to support that assertion. I wonder why? Your point, you show the evidence.

                          Is it this report?
                          Firearm homicides and suicides are a continuing public health concern in the United States. During 2009–2010, a total of 22,571 firearm homicides and 38,126 firearm suicides occurred among U.S. residents
                          Firearm Homicides and Suicides in Major Metropolitan Areas — United States, 2006–2007 and 2009–2010, Weekly August 2, 2013 / 62(30);597-602
                          https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm6230a1.htm

                          “And…..no matter which (sic) you you (sic) hacpve (sic) tried to squirm our violent crime rate is lower….rapes are much lower (sic).
                          How drunk were you when you tried to type this?

                          Your recorded rape rate may be lower, but since nobody knows how well your police are doing who knows? Sweden records one of the highest rates of rape in the world, about 240 times that of India. Do you really believe that represents the actuality of rape? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-19592372

                          Your continued confusion between what is recorded in different countries and the reality can no longer be simply blamed on ignorance. You just can’t stop lying.

                        • Bluesman1950

                          “CDC report to POTUS 2013. People who defend themselves with guns are less likely to be seriously injured than those who use other means or offer no defense.”

                          That was not a conclusion by the CDC. It was reporting various studies which contradict each other as to the benefits of gun possession.
                          https://www.nap.edu/read/18319/chapter/3#15

                          “A different issue is whether defensive uses of guns, however numerous or rare they may be, are effective in preventing injury to the gun-wielding crime victim. Studies that directly assessed the effect of actual defensive uses of guns (i.e., incidents in which a gun was “used” by the crime victim in the sense of attacking or threatening an offender) have found consistently lower injury rates among gun-using crime victims compared with victims who used other self-protective strategies (Kleck, 1988; Kleck and DeLone, 1993; Southwick, 2000; Tark and Kleck, 2004). Effectiveness of defensive tactics, however, is likely to vary across types of victims, types of offenders, and circumstances of the crime, so further research is needed both to explore these contingencies and to confirm or discount earlier findings.
                          Even when defensive use of guns is effective in averting death or injury for the gun user in cases of crime, it is still possible that keeping a gun in the home or carrying a gun in public—concealed or open carry—may have a different net effect on the rate of injury. For example, if gun ownership raises the risk of suicide, homicide, or the use of weapons by those who invade the homes of gun owners, this could cancel or outweigh the beneficial effects of defensive gun use (Kellermann et al., 1992, 1993, 1995). Although some early studies were published that relate to this issue, they were not conclusive, and this is a sufficiently important question that it merits additional, careful exploration.”

                        • GAU-8

                          Given our rape rate is 1/4 of yours I’d say you are right. 163/100,000 to 38.5.

                          So tell us, sheep: when did making victims defenseless make criminals harmless?

                        • Bluesman1950

                          So tell us, sheep: when did arming criminals make victims safer?

                        • Bluesman1950

                          “Given our rape rate is 1/4 of yours……”
                          Making up figures as you go along again!

                          In 2015 the FBI recorded 102,303 rapes, 320 per 100K.
                          https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2015/crime-in-the-u.s.-2015/tables/table-12
                          The ONS recorded 34,741 rapes 609 per 100K
                          https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/crimeandjustice/bulletins/crimeinenglandandwales/yearendingdecember2015#sexual-offences

                          609/320 is 90% more than yours not 400%. However, the 43 territorial forces in England and Wales are subject to rigorous, published inspection by HMIC. Since in the US there is no independent oversight or scrutiny of your 17,895 law enforcement agencies, of wildly differing sizes and levels of competence (unconstitutional to check apparently!), there is absolutely no telling how accurate, if at all, the US figures are. They are certainly not likely to be over-reporting. Your rape rate might be lower than ours, it could be the same or much higher, we simply have no way of telling!

                          So tell us, sheep: when did arming criminals make victims safer?

                        • GAU-8

                          Assault is over 2,000 but I just used assault with bodily harm, of course yo like to ignore in the US aggravated assault can include threats with no bodily harm. Squirm sheep

                        • Bluesman1950

                          No statistically significant change occurred in the rate of violent crime from 2014 (20.1 victimizations per 1,000) to 2015 (18.6 per 1,000)
                          http://www.bjs.gov/index.cfm?ty=pbdetail&iid=5804

                          1,860 violent crimes per 100,000 in the USA!

                          Your made up little table only demonstrates your stupidity.

                          Ah. The less-violent USA!
                          http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/ct-person-fatally-shot-in-south-austin-neighborhood-on-west-side-20161216-story.html

                        • GAU-8

                          It’s a good thing Chicago doesn’t even have a gun store and has legal gun ownership equivalent to pre-gun confiscation UK (and before you rant – suggest you learn how US laws and state by state laws work).

                          So what could cause all that Chicago crime? Must the criminals!

                          http://abc7chicago.com/news/chicago-murders-up-75-percent-in-january-2016/1181677/

                          “Escalante says the majority of the violence is gang-related, with 50 percent of the murder victims identified as known gang members. He says shootings are often a result of personal petty disputes that are fueled by social media.”

                          Which of these BJS documents was I supposed to read? It sucks when Disqus cuts off links doesn’t it?

                          https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/b0b41e923c513ab9439120f620e0bb8a9071a6b7244524218e9f00cbf90c1151.jpg

                        • Bluesman1950

                          So ‘no gun stores’ equals ‘no guns’?

                        • GAU-8

                          For the law abiding….welcome to US progressive liberalism at its finest.

                          “1985 Department of Justice survey of incarcerated felons reported that 57 percent of felons polled agreed that “criminals are more worried about meeting an armed victim than they are about running into the police.” ”

                          http://www.wnd.com/2016/06/57-of-criminals-fear-armed-citizens-more-than-cops/

                        • GAU-8

                          “Whereas you ignore that such threats require the threat of a deadly weapon.!”

                          But according to you all us Americans have are deadly weapons. Which is it?

                        • Bluesman1950

                          “But according to you all us Americans have are deadly weapons. Which is it?”
                          Point to where I said that!

                        • GAU-8

                          Let’s review your “hospital admissions” for assault

                          27% are fractures to the head or face
                          14% are open head wounds

                          sure….all your cases are simple assault….let me just call Bull Shiitake now.

                          https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/82b221a426fa3e00c282ca2439c4b41bcba87b6ce532fe49ad0b46641fc6705d.jpg alt

                          July 2015 NHS A&E admissions data

                        • Bluesman1950

                          I didn’t say they were all simple assaults, you just made that up. It’s all assault admissions, which are less than 60% the rate of all US hospital admissions.

                        • GAU-8

                          That’s fine….I didn’t use hospital numbers…you did sheep!

                          “He suspects” the number is lower, well isn’t that convenient? I suspect he’s fudging the numbers.

                        • Bluesman1950

                          “That’s fine….I didn’t use hospital numbers…you did sheep!”
                          Because the hospital numbers show a rate of assault injury in the USA twice that of the UK. Of course you wouldn’t.

                        • GAU-8

                          Read how CDC gathers the data…

                        • Bluesman1950

                          Why don’t you tell me if you think they have got it wrong?

                        • GAU-8

                          Our rate increased due to liberal, progressives and their faithful sheeple. Much the same way yours went up 200% and why you (and the rest of the EU) have a refugee rape issue.

                        • Bluesman1950

                          “Much the same way yours went up 200% ”

                          No, our recorded homicide went up 88% during the 20th century while yours went up 360%, nearly 4 times as much! I wonder why?

                          “you (and the rest of the EU) have a refugee rape issue.”
                          Feel free to detail the list of ‘refugee rapes’ there have been in the UK. (Before you start whimpering “Rotherham” again, the convicted and alleged offenders have not been refugees. The terms, ‘Asian’, ‘Muslim’ and ‘refugee’ are not interchangeable.)

                        • GAU-8

                          Prohibition gave rise to organized crime.

                          War on Poverty gave rise to Chicago, Baktimore, DC, Detroit, Philly…. Chicago has zero gun stores by will account for 10% of all homicides with just 1% of the population.

                          Every time LA doubles doubles down on gun laws they add one more “sanctuary city”. 40% of all inmates serving. time for violent crime are illegals.

                          Why is violent crime 250% that of the US?

                        • Bluesman1950

                          Prohibition was a liberal movement? That’s an interesting definition of liberal!

                          “Why is violent crime 250% that of the US?”
                          Ours isn’t!

                        • GAU-8

                          Actual it was.

                          You have never had the homicide rate, but look at your total violence https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/479f11058357baaef245840e7a8a246c5ee8202e086ecfce8882f6815d6d7f3b.jpg

                        • Bluesman1950

                          Same unsubstantiated lies.

                        • GAU-8

                          Reading are hard

                          “It examines violent crimes (rape or sexual assault, robbery, aggravated assault, and simple assault)”

                          You missed that…… shall we upgrade then your assault rate to include all “simple assault?”

                          Lets…..that makes your rate 1620 higher or 2567 vs 1860 (US)

                          That still puts the UK 40% higher.

                          https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/crimeandjustice/bulletins/crimeinenglandandwales/2015-10-15#violent-crime

                        • Bluesman1950

                          “Reading are hard”
                          It obviously are for you.

                        • GAU-8

                          And yet you are still wrong…..

                        • GAU-8

                          To lazy to read, I’m not your mommy sheep.

                        • Bluesman1950

                          “To (sic) lazy to read, I’m not your mommy sheep.

                          In other words, you don’t know!

                        • GAU-8

                          Read numb nuts…it’s right there

                        • Bluesman1950

                          You can’t quote a link? You still don’t know then!

                        • GAU-8

                          Here cdc.gov

                        • Bluesman1950

                          So it’s time to get ready for winter! Really! You need to be a little more specific than the front page of the CDC website. Nice try but no cigar.

                          If you’ve got evidence, post it.

                        • GAU-8

                          https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/datablog/2015/oct/15/how-many-police-officers-harmed-line-of-duty

                          Let’s see 23,000 assaults on 200,000 officers versus 49,000 per 598,000. That would actually put them about equal. 10.1 vs 9.3.

                          http://www.timesherald.com/article/JR/20141125/NEWS/141129908

                          Justified police self defense? About 445 in 2015…..not sure where you pull 1,000 from.

                        • Bluesman1950

                          “That would actually put them about equal. 10.1 vs 9.3.”
                          Probably about right. Policing can be a dangerous and violent job anywhere. Just much less often fatal on either side in the UK than the USA.

                          .”not sure where you pull 1,000 from.”
                          https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/national/police-shootings/

                          “Officials with the Justice Department keep no comprehensive database or record of police shootings, instead allowing the nation’s more than 17,000 law enforcement agencies to self-report officer-involved shootings as part of the FBI’s annual data on “justifiable homicides” by law enforcement.
                          “That number – which only includes self-reported information from about 750 law enforcement agencies – hovers around 400 “justifiable homicides” by police officers each year. The DOJ’s Bureau of Justice Statistics also tracks “arrest-related deaths.” But the department stopped releasing those numbers after 2009, because, like the FBI data, they were widely regarded as unreliable.”
                          “Several independent trackers, primarily journalists and academics who study criminal justice, insist the accurate number of people shot and killed by police officers each year is consistently upwards of 1,000 each year.”
                          https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2014/09/08/how-many-police-shootings-a-year-no-one-knows/?utm_term=.a9a91b03fd14

                        • GAU-8
                        • Bluesman1950

                          Yes, millions of dead in the USA, more than in all the foreign wars America has ever fought.

                        • Mike Breen

                          “”In 2013, 1,670 children (age 0 to 18 years) died by gunshot and an additional 9,718 were injured””

                          Good grief!!!!

                        • jarhead1982

                          Isnt it amazing how even the CDC put out a study proving how many self defense incidents occur eh!

                          http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9591354?dopt=Abstract

                          Estimating intruder-related firearm retrievals in U.S. households, 1994.

                          R M Ikeda, L L Dahlberg, J J Sacks, J A Mercy, K E Powell

                          National Center for Injury Prevention and Control, Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, Atlanta, GA, USA.

                          Violence and Victims (Impact Factor: 1.28). 02/1997; 12(4):363-72.

                          Source: PubMed

                          ABSTRACT To estimate the frequency of firearm retrieval because of a known or presumed intruder, the authors analyzed data from a 1994 national random digit dialing telephone survey (n = 5,238 interviews).

                          Three mutually exclusive definitions of firearm retrieval were constructed: (1) retrieved a firearm because there might be an intruder,
(2) retrieved a firearm and saw an intruder, and 
(3) retrieved a firearm, saw an intruder, and believed the intruder was frightened away by the gun.

                          Of 1,678 (34%) households with firearms: 105 (6%) retrieved a firearm in the previous 12 months because of an intruder.

                          National projections based on these self-reports reveal an estimated 1,896,842 (95% CI [confidence interval] =

                          (1) 1,480,647-2,313,035) incidents in which a firearm was retrieved, but no intruder was seen;

                          (2) 503,481 (95% CI = 305,093-701,870) incidents occurred in which an intruder was seen, and

                          (3) 497,646 (95% CI = 266,060-729,231) incidents occurred in which the intruder was seen and reportedly scared away by the firearm.

                          WOW, 497,646 incidents where the bad guys was seen and scared away by the law abiding armed citizen, typical result!

                          WOW it has been 22 years and to date, not one single anti gunnutter has ever proven the data source and variables wrong….

                          WOW it has been 22 years and to date, not one single anti gunnutters has proven the methodology wrong!

                          WOW it has been 22 years to date, not one single anti gunnutter jhas proven this has changed….go figure!

                          WOW it has been 22 years to date, not one single anti gunnutter has ever proven attacks only occur at home…go figure!

                        • jarhead1982

                          If you rely on the FBI Uniform Crime Reports (UCR) for numbers of justifiable homicides, the numbers will always be significantly under reported.

                          First, in many years, many states simply do not submit numbers 45% on average yearly don’t, so they are not counted, hence an undercount.

                          19,335 agencies in US x 45%= 8,701 police agencies who did not report

                          There is no requirement for police agencies to update files on cases in progress, their ruling and such, hence another inherent undercount.

                          The definition of justifiable homicides vary from state to state. What is reported is often politically determined, hence an undercount by 80%.

                          Here is the FBI UCR definition for justifiable homicides, from pages 17 and 18 of the Uniform Crime Reporting Handbook:

                          Justifiable Homicide

                          Certain willful killings must be classified as justifiable or excusable. In UCR, Justifiable Homicide is defined as and limited to:

                          • The killing of a felon by a peace officer in the line of duty.

                          • The killing of a felon, during the commission of a felony, by a private citizen.

                          NOTE: To submit offense data to the UCR Program, law enforcement agencies must report the willful (nonnegligent) killing of one individual by another, not the criminal liability of the person or persons involved.

                          The following scenarios illustrate incidents known to law enforcement that reporting agencies would consider Justifiable Homicide:

                          15. A police officer answered a bank alarm and surprised the robber coming out of the bank. The robber saw the responding officer and fired at him. The officer returned fire, killing the robber. The officer was charged in a court of record as a matter of routine in such cases.

                          16. When a gunman entered a store and attempted to rob the proprietor, the storekeeper shot and killed the felon

                          NOTE: Justifiable homicide, by definition, occurs in conjunction with other offenses. Therefore, the crime being committed when the justifiable homicide took place must be reported as a separate offense. Reporting agencies should take care to ensure that they do not classify a killing as justifiable or excusable solely on the claims of self-defense or on the action of a coroner, prosecutor, grand jury, or court.

                          The following scenario illustrates an incident known to law enforcement that reporting agencies would not consider Justifiable Homicide:

                          17. While playing cards, two men got into an argument. The first man attacked the second with a broken bottle. The second man pulled a gun and killed his attacker. The police arrested the shooter; he claimed self-defense.

                          By this definition, 80% of justifiable homicides will and never are reported to the FBI as such.

                        • jarhead1982

                          Oh you want data, hey lets review the following.





                          http : // www . fbi . gov / ucr / ucr . htm

                          FBI UCR Database





                          You know, the government database showing in 2008 that 1.38 mil violent crimes were reported and that of those 381,758 involved a firearm,

                          



Firearm Use by Offenders, Bureau of Justice Statistics,
November 2001 http : // bjs . ojp .
usdoj . gov / index.cfm?ty=pb….

                          where it shows how 15% of the incidents were
 shots fired.





                          http : // www . data . gov / details / 1526

                          

USDOJ National Victimization Report 2008 





                          http://www.gun-control-network.org/Scotland%202011-2012.pdf

                          Heck even gun ban paradise Scotland shows the majority of incidents a gun is used no shots are fired, page 9, chart#3

                          You know, the government agency sub annual report showing in from 2001-2011 that an avg. of 73.95% of all violent crimes committed each year were not reported.





                          Funny how we see Canada & England perform this same study and get the sameresults, go figure eh!





                          Oh wait, what’s this, annual firearm discharge reports that show the police only hit their targets 15% of the time, such a common trend.





                          http : // www . virginiacops . org / Articles / Sho…




                          http : // www . theppsc . org / Staff_Views / Aveni…




                          http : // www . nyc . gov / html / nypd / downloads / p…




                          http : // www . nyclu . org / files / nypd_firearms…





                          Uh make sure you dig a little further on the police firearm discharge reports though, they have taken to listing whether or not the target was hit, not the numbers of shots fired as 
it was too emberassing to admit how many times the police missed their target!





                          Uh just an fyi there were approximately 12,252 murders and 70,000 injuries by firearms in 2008.



So using the standard shooting percentages, and hit %
provided by all that government data these antis cant refute, lets calculate and see how many people self defense has
 saved the US per year, and we will only concentrate on the law abiding to start with. 

Even though the anti’s wont admit that even felons, who are citizens, have the right to defend themselves.



                          Self Defense saves lives





                          FBI UCR 2010



278 documented justifiable homicides and since there are oh 2.5 people per household per US Census, almost 6 injuries per death we will calculate from that point.



                          Since the FBI doesn’t receive data from 45% of the 19,335 police agencies we will adjust the number unless you have govt. data proving the rate of DGU’s being reported is different in that 45% not reporting….no…..

                          278/55 reported = 1% x 100 = 100% = 505 justifiable homicides

                          Since the FBI doesn’t categorize justifiable homicides that are due to political wording where only 1 of 5 that occur are actually reported, we will adjust for that as well…

                          505/20 = 1% x 100 = 100% = 2,527 justifiable homicides

                          Now we all know as per the CDC that not every shot kills, so we must include those who didn’t die but were shot…

                          
2,527 + (6 x 2,527 = injured) = 15% of shots hit
 target /15 = 1% x 100 = # of shots fired = 117,939 incidents shots fired by law abiding citizens.





                          117,939/15 = 1% x 100 = total number of self defense 
incidents just of people not involved in a criminal activity =786,260 incidents.





                          786,260 x 2.5 people per household = 1,965,650 people defended or defending themselves.





                          Now we know that of 381,758 violent crimes in 2008, there were 12,252 murders, and 70,000 injuries, and assuming the same rate of injuries = 3.2% deaths 18.4% injuries.



                          Since the FBI UCR data shows over 3 decades that only 26.8% of incidents is a gun used in a violent crime, the same rate should apply to defensive gun uses unless you have govt. data to prove otherwise eh, no, typical cumchin…

                          12,252/381,758 = 3.2% 
and 70,000/381,758 = 18.4%


 


                          (786,260 x .268) x .032 = # of deaths saved 6,743

                          (786,260 x .268) x .184 = # of injuries prevented 38,772



                          Oh darn, we forgot that 68% of killings use a gun so that means that the number of injuries and murders prevented by gun use should be equal to all methods used, so…

                          6,743 = 68% therefore 6,743/68 = 1% x 100 = 100% = 9,916 murders prevented

                          38,772 = 68% therefore 38,772/68 = 1% x 100 = 100% = 57,018 injuries prevented

                          So sad we can using this government data show law biding civilians prevented since 1960 over 1.131 MIL murders and prevented over 6.5 mil injuries.





                          If it saves just one life, it is justified.

                        • jarhead1982

                          So lets see armed resistance in schools:

                          Pearl High School MS 1997 2 murdered 7 injured (no legal carry on school grounds, whoops)

                          Appalachian Law School 2002 3 murdered 3 injured (no legal carry on school grounds, whoops)

                          College Station GA 2009 1 injured (no legal carry on school grounds or campus housing, whoops)

                          Sullivan High School TN 2010 0 injured (no legal carry on school grounds whoops)

                          Middle School Atlanta GA 2013 1 injured (no legal carry on school grounds whoops)

                          High School Detorit MI 2013 0 injured (no legal carry on school grounds unless open carry, he wasnt open carrying because of then AG Granholms 2002 ruling, whoops)

                          Arapaho High School CO 2013 1 killed (no legal carry on school grounds, whoops)

                          “shooter entered the school armed with a shotgun, a machete, three Molotov cocktails, and 125 rounds of ammunition.[9][10] He requested to see school librarian Tracy Murphy”

                          Reynolds High School OR 2014 1 dead (whoops, no legal carry on this campus or school district whoops)

                          Now we can truthfully say the average number of kids shot and killed/injured in a mass shooting (4 injured) at a school are 363 killed and injured /30 mass shootings since 1990 = 12.1

                          So how many kids were injured and killed in those incidents above…

                          18/7 = 2.57

                          12.1/2.57 = 4.71 times higher bodycount in schools where no armed resistance occurred.

                          By the way, how much ammunition and weaponry did those shooters have when stopped (example arapahoe high shooter)

                          But we understand, in the finite incident of mass shooting you prefer 363 dead and wounded in 30 mass shootings than 77 dead and wounded.

                          We expect you to go to the families of the 286 dead and wounded children that could have been saved and explain how your immoral blood thirsty heathen demokrat position is better.

                          Now, post those 286 accidental shootings in the 19 states for the last 30 years more-on…..we havent all millenia…in fact WE DARE YOU COWARD

                        • jarhead1982

                          Well the 1 mil police are proven to be 11 times more likely to shoot you accidentally in a collateral damage incident than are the 135 mil law abiding gun owners or the 11 mil plus of those who carry concealed.

                          Anti gun nuts have squealed BLOOD WILL FLOW every time a law was rescinded and a right restored….

                          41 times states, reinstated concealed carry, the blood didn’t flow!

                          35 times, states reinstated concealed carry in eateries serving alcohol the blood didn’t flow!

                          26 times states reinstated SYG outside ones own home, the blood didn’t flow!

                          24 times, states reinstated no duty to retreat within ones own home the blood didn’t flow!

                          19 states w 300+ school districts reinstated concealed/open carry over 10 years the blood didn’t flow!

                          308 different times anti gun nuts have squealed the blood would flow from law abiding gun owners, yet violent crime has dropped -51.47%, murders with a gun have dropped -54.09% all while there has been an increase of 42% of guns in law abiding civilians hands!

                          So either start posting all those thousands of collateral shootings you are so worried about or be labeled a chicken little squawking the sky is falling the sky is falling as no one believed chicken little, and no one believes you and your 308 failed predictions of violence sunshine!

                          http://investigations.nbcnews….

                          Here are the 19 states that allow adults to carry loaded weapons onto school grounds with few or minor conditions:

                          Alabama (which bans possessing a weapon on school grounds only if the carrier has “intent to do bodily harm”) 4.8 mil

                          California (with approval of the superintendent) 38 mil

                          Connecticut (with approval of “school officials”) 3.5 mil

                          Hawaii (no specific law) 1.4 mil

                          Idaho (with school trustees’ approval) 1.6 mil

                          Iowa (with “authorization”) 3.1 mil

                          Kentucky (with school board approval) 4.4 mil

                          Massachusetts (with approval of the school board or principal) 6.5 mil

                          Minnesota (with approval from the school principal) 5.4 mil

                          Mississippi (with school board approval) 3 mil

                          Montana (with school trustees’ permission) 1.02 mil

                          New Hampshire (ban applies only to pupils, not adults) 1.3 mil

                          New Jersey (with approval from the school’s “governing officer”) 8.6 mil

                          New York (with the school’s approval) 19.5 mil

                          Oregon (with school board approval) 3.8 mil

                          Rhode Island (with a state concealed weapons permit) 1.1 mil

                          Texas (with the school’s permission) 27 mil

                          Utah (with approval of the “responsible school administrator”) 2.9 mil

                          Wyoming (as long as it’s not concealed) .6 mil

                          137.52 mil population

                        • jarhead1982

                          Speaking of armed self defense, we see that 40% of incidents occur outside the home so the CDC data adding in outside attacks prove near 1 million defnesive gun uses a year, just with GOVT. DATA…

                          Google some of the many websites that collate the media & police incident reports of defensive gun uses, and danr how 75% of the incidents, arent repeated on the other sites, ROTFLMFAO…

                          http://bearingarms.com/category/guns-saving-lives/

                          http://www.easybakegunclub.com

                          defensivecarry.com

                          http://www.americanrifleman.org/the-armed-citizen/

                          thehighroad.org

                          usconcealedcarry.com

                          the firingline,com

                          http://keepandbeararms.com


                          http://www.cato.org/guns-and-self-defense

                          https://www.gunowners.org/self-defense-corner/

                          http://gunssavelives.net/category/self-defense/

                          It is just horrible how law abiding gun owners defend themselves without asking permission first, and are so successful at doing so…

                          The following are from just ONE of many web sites collating the DGU’s, Gunssavelive.net..

                          Feb 2012 to Aug 30, 2016

                          1,235 Total Incidents


                          3,407 Total People Defended


                          1,951 Total attackers


                          11 Attacked in car


                          240 Attacked at Business


                          779 Attacked at Home


                          193 Attacked Other

                          
63.1% % of attacks at home


                          2.5216 Avg attackers when more than

                          61.3% % of incidents 1 attacker


                          38.7% % of incidents more than 1 attacker


                          61.9% % of bad guys armed


                          765 # of Attacks bad guy armed


                          470 # of Attacks bad guys unarmed


                          190 Women defending themselves


                          15.38% % of DGU’s women successfully defending themselves

                        • Mike Breen

                          33,000 a year shot dead, thousands of children shot and the poster girl for feminine self defence, Jamie Guilt, shot by her 4 year old son. A murder rate five times higher than the UK, usually by gun. Shocking.

                        • jarhead1982

                          Isnt that impotent rage squealing such a pretty sound, and here the UK pedo is too stupid yet again for the trillionth time to prove that law abiding gun owners were responsible for the 33,000 it claims, so sad, repeating your lie doesnt make it magically true mukey, better lay off the illicit narcotics before you OD….

                        • Mike Breen

                          With your wild accusations and obsessive compulsive behaviour, you are as a crazy as a loon and all the while you think you are making a good argument for guns for all, you do precisely the opposite. Sadly, you’re too stupid to even realise that. You’re crazy as a loon and armed to the teeth, the US gun problem personified.

                        • jarhead1982

                          Based on your repeated failures to do more than squeal shout and fling feces like only a trained chimp can do, we see that reality has proven youre irreversibly brain damaged and danger to public safety and should be permanently locked away for the childrens safety

                        • Mike Breen

                          Just more evidence that you should not haver a gun, more evidence that guns need to be controlled. Please, continue.

                        • jarhead1982

                          Just more evidence that you have nothing but emotional kaka, lies and adhominem to offer the world, such is the life of a proven pathological lying regressivepedofairy in the UK

                        • Mike Breen

                          Yet again, another post that suggests you and reality are very far apart, yet another post that suggests guns need to be controlled to keep them out of the hands of people like you. Please, more of the same.

                        • jarhead1982

                          Yet again all we see is the intolerant tantrum of a brainless nazee sock puppet with nothing but Saul alinsky rule #5 adhominems hate and lies to offer

                          Horrible how the pervert wails about violence and yet the UK is proven 5 times more violent than the US

                          The UK puxxies suicide rate is even higher than the US…

                          Now squeal in impotent rage some more chimp

                          We command ypu

                        • Mike Breen

                          And you just lied to somebody who knows it’s a lie and you know I know. That’s because you are a nutter and a perfect example of why guns have to be contolled.

                        • jarhead1982

                          All the pervert can do when we post the govt data citations studies and laws proving the nazee perversions of making the innocents defenseless, is squeal stomp its feet and go waaaah dats not twue…

                          Now if you jump squeal lie and fling more feces upon our command we will give you a banana as a reward, now jump and squeal chimp

                          We command you

                        • Mike Breen

                          Yet again, just more insanity that suggests you should not have a gun.

                        • jarhead1982

                          Yet again more insanity that proves you shouldnt be allowed out in public without a muzzle or leashed in a straight jacket

                        • Mike Breen

                          Yet again, another post that suggests you should not be allowed a gun.

                        • jarhead1982

                          Yet again another post the proves you should be locked away for public safety.

                        • jarhead1982

                          Yet again, another post that proves you and reality are very far apart, yet another post that proves all demokraps and left wing nutjobs need to be controlled to keep them from being the violent thuggstas and pedohiles govt. data proves your kind to be. Please, more of the same.

                        • Mike Breen

                          Another post that tells all that you have no grip on reality, another post that shows you need to be disarmed before somebody gets hurt. Another post that suggests gun control is needed.

                        • jarhead1982

                          Yet another post by the poster child of pestilence, hate, lies and demonic worship spewing boys lies

                          All while it screams in impotent rage to attack an innocent law abiding gun owners rights all because we continuously prove Mukey pedos claims to be lies, such a good widdle trained nazee he is

                          Now we order you to squeal and shout louder like the well trained anti gun chump you are

                          We own you

                        • jarhead1982

                          Yet again the troll offers nothing other than its ever present hate, lies, blatant lies, pathological lies, and regressivepedofairy lies, just another post that demonstrates how out of touch with reality and how insane all anti gun advocates truly are

                        • jarhead1982

                          Mocking a proven insane pathological lying nazee like you is evidence of what again oh inherent pathological liar……

                        • jarhead1982

                          Poor widdle liar, the vast majority of those inferred children were 14-18 yr old gang bangers, the kind of childhood thuggstas and pedophiles like mukey pedo puffer grew up in. Further evidence that all left wing anti gun nutjobs should be registered and locked up for public safety as clearly we cant trust any like mukey not to such violent perverted blood thirsty heathens.

                        • jarhead1982

                          http://www.activeresponsetraining.net/resistance-to-violent-crime-what-does-the-research-show

                          Am I more likely to be hurt or killed if I resist a criminal attacker?

                          The research is contradictory on this question. The short answer is that it depends on the type of crime and what method the victim uses to resist. Resistance to crimes of violence is more common than most people realize. Overall 71.4% of victims of violent crime took some type of self-protective measure. Such measures include screaming, running, physically fighting the attacker, and using a weapon, among other things (12). Resisting a crime by using a firearm generally reduces your chance of being hurt or killed, especially for women. A study by Gary Kleck found that the probability of serious injury in a criminal attack is two and a half times greater for women offering no resistance than women resisting with a firearm. Men are also safer if they resist with a firearm than if they do not resist at all, but the difference is smaller (1.5 times less likely to be injured) (13).

                          Unarmed resistance, on the other hand, does positively correlate with an increased rate of injury in most crimes. One study showed that, during a retail robbery, unarmed resisting store clerks were 50 times more likely to be killed than clerks who did not resist (14). Victims resisting robberies are 20% more likely to be injured than victims who comply with the robbers’ demands. Eighty-six percent of resisting victims are injured as compared to sixty-six percent of compliant victims (15). Presence of a weapon by the criminal does not influence injury rates. Injury rates are the same between victims attacked with weapons and victims attacked by unarmed criminals (26%), although victims attacked by armed criminals were about 3.5 times more likely to suffer serious injuries (16).

                        • Mike Breen

                          Well, a gun fight is generally more deadly than a robbery where nether party is armed, as witnessed by your murder rate at around five times higher and usually with a gun. It seems to be a gun nut tradition to try and bury an uncomfortable truth in a shit-storm of ridiculous statistics that mean sweet FA compared to the one they are trying to burry. 33,000 a year shot dead.

                        • jarhead1982

                          And here comes the UK pedo pervert claiming that the law abiding gun owners are the ones who committed the 33,000 killings and no proof does it have to support that proven pathological lie

                        • Mike Breen

                          I reckon quite a few of the 33,000 were killed by people with mental health issues. That’s you.

                        • jarhead1982

                          Aw, now the pathological liar infers it is a licensed and trained psychiatrist, it never ceases to amaze the sane world how pathetic the left wing nazis lies become

                        • Mike Breen

                          It does not take a psychiatrist to see that you are not the full ticket. With your wild accusations, your obsessive-compulsive behaviour and your inability to tell truth from fiction, you should not be allowed a gun. You remain the best argument for gun control that I have ever seen.

                        • jarhead1982

                          It doesnt take a trained psychiatrist to see that you are not the full ticket. With your wild accusations against the innocent law abiding gun woenrs, your obsessive compulsive lying and your inherent inability to tell the truth even when you are repeatedly proven a liar, you should not be allowed to speak or walk in the public without at minimum a muzzle and chaperone if not a leash. You remain the best arguement for law abiding citizens to be armed the world has ever seen in all of history!

                        • Mike Breen

                          Now you are just parroting my own posts, yet more proof that you are not a normal person and have little grip on reality. Another post for gun control.

                        • jarhead1982

                          Well giving you a bannana as a reward for your organ grinder monkee act doesnt seem to calm you down so does mukey wanna cracka?

                        • Mike Breen

                          I will take your mimicry as a compliment, although it does yet again make you look like a lunatic who needs to be disarmed before somebody gets hurt.

                        • jarhead1982

                          It thinks mocking its inherent and pathological lies is a compliment, man the psychotic episode of the UK troll is growing by the minute, time to call the men in white with butterfly nets to stop it before it harms more children as its anti gun kind prefers to do.

                        • jarhead1982

                          Oh poor widdle liar, our murder rate is #110 out of 205 countries in the world….how can that be when we have so many guns in law abiding gun owners hands, oh thats right, the law abiding gun owners arent the problem.

                          Terrorists, thuggstas, and pedophiles like mukey pedo puffer are the problem actually as they are the people killing the vast majority of those 33,000 and poor troll, too stupid to prove otherwise.

                          Mukey is just further proof that all anti gun lefties should be registered and locked up for public safety as clearly we cant trust any of them not to be such violent blood thirsty heathens and perverts.

                        • jarhead1982

                          Shall we review police firearm discharge reports in Chicago and NYC where between 76-80% of those involved in shootings, both shooter and injured were both involved in criminal activity at the time of the incident.

                          http://www.popcenter.org/problems/drive_by_shooting/PDFs/Block_and_Block_1993.pdf,

                          http://www.nyc.gov/html/nypd/downloads/pdf/public_information/2007_firearms_discharge_report.pdf,

                          http://www.nyclu.org/files/nypd_firearms_report_102207.pdf

                          Yeah, review of all the govt. data above shows over 96% of all killings by illegal use of a firearm are committed by career criminals, gang members, suiciders & crazies w approximately 50% of the remainder due to domestic violence incidents.

                          A sane person would normally address the largest problem first don’t you agree?

                          Oh you want numbers, ok!

                          Since suicides are not illegal, murder is illegal that means accidental deaths, justifiable homicides and the % of murders not committed by FELONS or any of the other 9 categories of people banned can be removed from the 31,084 total, which as noted in the multiple USDOJ studies and reports 80% of the most violent crimes are committed by career criminals, gang members.

                          Do the numbers now that you have the premise, here are the numbers for 2011.

                          31,084 killings by use of gun

                          9,892 murders

                          19,766 suicides

                          591 justifiable homicides (209 by civilians using a gun, 270 total)

                          835 accidental deaths

                          ((9,892 x .8)+19,766)/31,084 -(591+835) = 27,860/29,658 = 93.9%.

                          Oh darn, forgot the FBI not reporting the correct number of justifiable homicides, so since 209 justifiable homicides were by firearm alone by civilians, 5 times 209 = 1,045.

                          So 29,658-1,045 = 28,613

                          Redone = 27,860/28,613 = 97.3% darn, that’s more than 96%, my bad!

                        • jarhead1982

                          http://www.pewstates.org/uploadedFiles/PCS_Assets/2011/Pew_State_of_Recidivism.pdf

                          http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/rprts05p0510.pdf

                          Among state prisoners released in 30 states in 2005—

„. About two-thirds (67.8%) of released prisoners were arrested for a new crime within 3 years, and three-quarters (76.6%) were arrested within 5 years.

                          
„. Within 5 years of release, 82.1% of property offenders were arrested for a new crime, compared to 76.9% of drug offenders, 73.6% of public order offenders, and 71.3% of violent offenders.

                          
„. More than a third (36.8%) of all prisoners who were arrested within 5 years of release were arrested within the first 6 months after release, with more than half (56.7%) arrested by the end of the first year.

„

                          . Two in five (42.3%) released prisoners were either not arrested or arrested once in the 5 years after their release.

„

                          . A sixth (16.1%) of released prisoners were responsible for almost half (48.4%) of the nearly 1.2 million arrests that occurred in the 5-year follow-up period.

„

                          . An estimated 10.9% of released prisoners were arrested in a state other than the one that released them during the 5-year follow-up period.

„

                          . Within 5 years of release, 84.1% of inmates who were age 24 or younger at release were arrested, compared to 78.6% of inmates ages 25 to 39 and 69.2% of those age 40 or older.

                          http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/ascii/aus8009.txt

                        • jarhead1982

                          http://www.npr.org/sections/codeswitch/2016/10/08/497123741/race-and-policing-treat-black-men-and-boys-like-victims-too

                          A few years ago, a pair of sociologists named Andrew Papachristos and Christopher Wildeman decided to study gun violence in Chicago. They focused on a specific community on the west side: overwhelmingly black and disproportionately poor, with a murder rate that was five times higher than the rest of the city.

                          Their approach was to look at gun violence the way epidemiologists study disease — examining the way it spread by social connections. And like a virus, they found that there were certain people who were especially at risk of being touched by it.

                          “The one thing I found that was so surprising was the severe concentration of violence,” Papachristos told me in 2012. The researchers isolated one particularly tight social cluster that was in danger of deadly violence — 4 percent of the people in that network accounted for almost 41 percent of the homicides in the neighborhood. They tended to be men. Almost all had a previous arrest. They tended to live about 350 feet from another homicide victim. And they tended to be only a couple of degrees removed socially from one another.

                          “They’re a couple handshakes away from each other,” Papachristos said. The further away someone in those communities was from that network, though, the safer he or she was, and the researchers argued that making those folks in the cluster more safe required a new approach. “Changing networks means changing communities,” Papachristos later explained to the Science of Us. “You can’t arrest your way out.”

                          I remembered that conversation last week after the FBI released the national crime statistics for 2015. Although last year remained one of the safest years on record, the number of homicides jumped, and in a big way: killings were up nearly 11 percent over the previous year.

                          There are a bunch of ways to read that data. Violent crime had been historically low over the last half-decade and any uptick might look relatively dramatic. And 2015 might also turn out to be an aberration — criminologists say crime tends to fluctuate from year to year, and the next year’s stats might again show a continuation of that general downward trend. Liberals and conservatives also tend to have very different interpretations of those numbers. But what’s undeniable is that a major reason for the homicide surge is that at least 900 more black men and boys were killed in 2015. More than half of the jump in homicides could be attributed to spikes in in Chicago, Baltimore and Washington, D.C. It’s not an overstatement to say that the phenomenon of surging American homicide is largely the problem of black men and boys.

                          Laquan McDonald, right, walked down the street moments before being fatally shot by a police officer sixteen times in Chicago. The shooting was part of a steady drumbeat of scandals that have embroiled the city’s police department in recent years.

                          Yet we treat them more as the potential perpetrators of violence and seldom as its most likely victims. Our approach hasn’t been to identify and protect the people who might be most at-risk. Our approach has effectively been to treat everyone in those communities like a criminal. We’ve tried to arrest our way out of it.

                          In their efforts to reduce violence in places where it has remained stubbornly elevated, police departments in big cities have cycled through a host of strategies that put their officers in regular contact with black men — “hot-spot” policing, stop-and-frisk, biking while black, etc. That repeated exposure to the police results in routine, random searches of law-abiding people, yielding little more than thousands of summonses and arrests for petty infractions. Papachristos offered me a different idea: Rather than casting a wide net and indiscriminately ensnaring black men, we should focus much more on looking out for those most in danger — that is to say, a “hot-people” strategy instead of a “hot-spot” strategy.

                          But when the demographic skew in homicides is acknowledged, it tends to be unhelpfully labeled “black-on-black crime” — that is, murder as the inevitable result of a tangle of dysfunctional pathologies exhibited by black people. The proponents of this view say that any honest discussion about race and crime — and thus, race and policing — has to grapple with what they say is a deeply rooted flaw in the culture of black communities. And so we’ve dealt with this problem using the blunt instrument of policing, not imagination or even empathy.

                          “…[W]e’ve dealt with this problem using the blunt instrument of policing, not imagination or even empathy.”

                          Chicago, again, offers a vivid example of how that plays out. The city’s deeply segregated black communities have long been subjected to ineffective and sometimes disastrously bad policing. Here are a few police scandals that became national news in just the last two years: there was the district where for decades, residents were routinely tortured and coerced by the police into giving false confessions; the recently discovered practice by which civilians were charged with the deaths of people who were in fact killed by police officers; the high-profile police shooting of Laquan McDonald, which was almost certainly covered up by some officers at the scene. (And as I was writing this essay, several people coincidentally passed this story along to me.) And these controversies all rest against the backdrop of the department’s distressingly low clearance rate in homicide cases; police there have only managed to solve about 21 percent of the homicides this year. (For comparison, Washington, D.C, a city rarely held up as a paragon of police effectiveness, had a homicide clearance rate of 62% in 2015.) These are horrifying crimes that devastate communities, and too few people are held responsible. Or, as the late Harvard law professor William Stuntz wrote, “poor black neighborhoods see too little of the kinds of policing and criminal punishment that do the most good, and too much of the kinds that do the most harm.”

                          Papachristos recently wrote about the consequences of this kind of bad policing in the New York Times. He cited a new study that found that a high-profile incident of police misconduct in Milwaukee — another deeply segregated city with a grim recent history around race and policing — made residents there far less likely to call 911 for help. That means that attempts at achieving justice often come via extra-legal means. “Research shows that urban neighborhoods with higher levels of [distrust in the legal system] also have higher rates of violent crime,” he wrote. “When citizens lose faith in the police, they are more apt to take the law into their own hands.”

                          These circumstances didn’t suddenly appear because of any one-year change in the FBI’s crime stats. If, as Papachristos says, homicides among black men and boys is a virus, then we’re ignoring one of the major reasons it has been so persistent: the policy and policing that’s supposed to protect the folks most at risk in many cities have helped create many of the conditions — the delegitimizing of the justice system, vigilantism, a distrust of law enforcement, a failure to distinguish between the dangerous and the endangered — that have enabled the virus to spread.

                        • jarhead1982

                          Whoopise blueballs/mukey pedo puffer cant provide any proper govt. citation to disprove the folllowing, yet they infer persecuting the law abiding magically stops criminals….takes a lot of illicit narcotic abuse to believe that

                          http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2013/11/14/gun-violence-significantly-increased-by-social-interactions?s_cid=rss:gun-violence-significantly-increased-by-social-interactions

                          “Gun Violence Significantly increased by social interactions” 11/14/2013

                          Andrew Papachristos, an associate professor of sociology at Yale, analyzed police and gun homicide records from 2006 to 2011 for people living in a high-crime neighborhood in Chicago.

                          He found that 41 % of all gun homicides occurred within a network of less than 4 % of the neighborhood’s population, and that the closer one is connected to a homicide victim, the greater that person’s chances were for becoming a victim. Each social tie removed from a homicide victim decreased a person’s odds of becoming a victim by 57 %

                          “What the findings essentially tell you is that the people who are most at risk of becoming a victim are sort of surrounded by victims within a few handshakes,” Papachristos says. “These are young men who are actively engaged in the behaviors that got them in this network.”

                          The network in question consists of more than 3,700 high-risk individuals – young, African-American males from a poor neighborhood – who were clustered into a network by instances of co-offending, meaning each person in the group had been arrested with another person.

                          Overall, the community’s five-year homicide rate was 39.7 per 100,000 people, which was still much higher than the averages of other areas of Chicago (14.7 per 100,000). But being a part of that network of co-offenders, essentially just being arrested, raised the rate to by nearly 50 percent, to 55.2 per 100,000. What’s more, being in a network with a homicide victim increased the homicide rate by 900 %, to 554.1 per 100,000.

                          “You’re at a risk for living in this [certain] community, but if you’re in the network, your risk is astronomical,” Papachristos says. “That rate is beyond epidemic proportion, that’s actually scary.”

                        • jarhead1982

                          Just horrible how govt. data proves you lame and pathetic inference that law abiding citizens are more likely to be killed by other law abiding citizens when in fact the vast majority are directly related to criminal activities like you are used to committing, and ran from paying what you owe society as you are a coward…

                          

An offshoot of 3 strikes your out was Operation Cease Fire & Project Exile to name a few, where local authorities concentrated on taking career crimnals and felons off the street and GASP the violent crime rate and murders DECLINED as a direct result….



                          What is even more hilarious is how the NRA is the main driver behind the authorities being funded to do this, and in fact as noted by a radicalized anti gun puxxy much like yourself, that the NRA was indeed right about prosecuting the actual criminals rather than attacking the law abiding to reduce violence…..



                          DOJ SUMMARY OF DISTRICT GUN VIOLENCE REDUCTION STRATEGIES



                          http : //www . justice . gov/archive/opd/AppendixA . htm



                          http : //www . ojjdp . gov/pubs/gun_violence/profile38 . html



                          Richmond’s Project Exile, started in March 1997, is credited with reducing the murder rate in that city by more than 30 percent in 1998, making it the lowest since 1987. There were 140 murders in Richmond in 1997 and 94 last year.

                          So far in 1998, the homicide rate has dropped again — to 53, Comey said.



                          As of November 1998, Project Exile had achieved the following results:



                          • 372 persons indicted for Federal gun violations.

                          
• 440 guns seized.

                          
• 300 persons arrested or held in State custody.

                          
• 222 arrestees (more than 74 percent) held without bond. 


                          • 247 persons convicted. 


                          • 196 persons sentenced to an average of 55months of
 imprisonment.



                          What if the NRA was Right?

                          http : //citypaper . net/articles/040600/cs . coverstory1 . shtml



                          Feds Help Easton Fight Gun Crime `Operation Ceasefire’ Exiles Gun Offenders To Far-away Federal Prisons. 



                          http : //articles . mcall . com/1999-10-10/news/3281651_1_richmond-s-project-exile-stiles-federal-court

                        • jarhead1982

                          Isn’t it amazing how multiple other states have implemented 3 strikes your out and have reduced violence, with one major difference from kalifornika, they didn’t implement strict gun control upon the lawful gun owners.

                          http://www.threestrikes.org/walsh_pg_one.html



                          http://www.cgu.edu/include/Evaluating%20criminal%20justice%20programs.pdf


                          California has what is probably the most publicized campaign against habitual criminals known as the three strikes law. There is plenty of evidence that the laws in California have provided significant benefits both in protecting citizens from further harm but also in fiscal impact to the California prison system.

                          Calculations based on the California Crime Index indicate that between March of 1994 when three strikes was first signed into law and the summer of 2004, there was a dramatic drop in California’s crime rate. Whether or not such a decline over those 10 years could be attributable to the three strikes sentencing scheme, other sentencing legislation enacted during the decade, changes in demographics, economic trends, or a combination of these factors, the crime rate in California fell by approximately 45% during this 10-year period. (Prosecutors’ Perspective on California’s Three Strikes Law – A 10-Year Retrospective, published 2004)

                          The prison system in California has seen its prison population numbers stabilize and has actually seen a massive reduction in the rate of increased spending in the budget for corrections. During the 10 years preceding three strikes (1984 to 1994), state expenditures for corrections increased nearly 220%. This is more than four times greater than after the enactment of three strikes.

                          “Many police officers, corrections officers and others, both inside and outside the criminal justice system, have noted that criminals fear three strikes. These people have also found that some criminals have modified their behavior. For once felons are worried about the criminal justice system and that has proven to be a deterrent factor. Despite predictions that the law would incarcerate many youthful offenders, for the 83 three-strikers sentenced to date (1997), the average age is 37 years old. These are career criminals, not likely to “outgrow” their antisocial behavior with added maturity”. (Washington Policy Center, “Three Strikes You’re Out; A Reform that Worked”, published 1997)

                        • jarhead1982

                          http://oag.ca.gov/sites/all/files/agweb/pdfs/cjsc/publications/candd/cd13/cd13.pdf?

                          Here are the summary totals for felony arrests in california 2008-2013…

                          2,707,083 felony arrests and based on national data, 26.8% of those would be for violent crimes with a gun!

                          2,707,083 x .268 = 725,498 who you anti gunterds claim are lawful gun owners prior to thier committing the felony crime they got arrested for…….

                          Still waiting for you anti gunterd trolls to demonstrate much less prove those 725,498 were lawful gun owners…….

                          Do we need to hold your hand and walk you ANTI GUN FAIRIES to each crime so you can prove you arent lying…………

                        • jarhead1982

                          http://touch.baltimoresun.com/#section/-1/article/p2p-85516403/

                          Here is a violent crime snapshot of a typical larger US city controlled and managed by liberal Democrats for decades. A whopping 344 homicides in Baltimore in 2015 alone. It is common knowledge that liberal policies have consistently failed these Democratic party cities where systemic violent crime is the norm.

                          “The suspects

                          The department said it had 85 homicide suspects as of Dec. 31, when the data was compiled. Of those, 74 were male and 11 were female. Five were juveniles. Also, 72 — or nearly 85 percent — were black, while the rest were white.

                          Among the suspects, 76.5 percent had prior criminal records, 62.4 percent had prior drug arrests, 52.9 percent had been arrested for violent crimes, and 41.2 percent had been arrested for gun crimes. Nearly a quarter were on parole and probation at the time of the killing for which they are now a suspect. Nearly 2.5 percent were on parole and probation specifically for a gun crime at the time of the incident.

                          The average suspect had been arrested more than nine times before, and 15.3 percent of the suspects were suspected gang members, the report said.”

                          “The victims

                          Some of the people killed in the city in 2015 were innocent bystanders to gun violence, including in shootings that ripped into crowds. There were also 22 juveniles killed, 10 of them under the age of 10.

                          But police have also said that some of the city’s residents most vulnerable to violence were also perpetrating violence— including known gang members and others heavily involved in the city’s violent drug trade.

                          “The driving forces behind the murders have remained the same and we’ve been successful at identifying some of these trigger pullers and getting them off the streets. We’re doing as much as we can with that group of people. It’s a vulnerable group, and I’ve said this a number of times,” Police Commissioner Kevin Davis said in November. “There are both perpetrators on that list and very likely victims on that list.”

                          The new data on the 2015 victims seems to bolster Davis’ claim that many victims were previously caught up in crime.

                          According to the analysis, nearly 90 percent of the 344 victims in 2015 had a prior criminal record. Of those, 80.2 percent had a prior drug arrest; 60.8 had been arrested for a violent crime; and half had a prior gun charge.

                          The average victim had been arrsted 13 times before, and 26.2 percent were suspected gang members, the report said.”

                        • jarhead1982

                          Isn’t it amazing how even the CDC agree’s with the criminologists on how it isn’t the law abiding gun owners responsible for the massive majority of violence.

                          Sources:

                          1.Total Firearm Deaths: 31,672 http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/injury.htm

                          2.Total suicides by firearms: 19,392 http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/suicide.htm

                          3.Justifiable Homicide (self defense by citizen against felon): 201 http://cnsnews.com/blog/stephen-gutowski/fbi-77-justifiable-homicides-involved-firearms-99-police

                          4.Justifiable Homicide (by police against felon) 343 http://www.bjs.gov/content/homicide/d_justify.cfm

                          5.Accidents: (2010) 851 http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr61/nvsr61_06.pdf

                          6.Gang related (2010) 8880 http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr61/nvsr61_06.pdf

                        • jarhead1982

                          http://scholarlycommons.law.northwestern.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=6873&context=jclc

                          REMARKS

                          REMARKS OF MARVIN E. WOLFGANG AT THE GUNS AND VIOLENCE SYMPOSIUM AT NORTHWESTERN UNIVERSITY

                          SCHOOL OF LAW, FEBRUARY 3, 1996 MARVIN E. WOLFGANG

                          Thefollowing remarks were to be delivered by Dr. Wolfgang at the Guns and Violence Symposium.

                          ForthosewhohavenotreadVolume86,Number1oftheJournal of CriminalLaw and Criminologyon Guns and Violence Symposium, I would like to make clear that I had been asked to write only a commentary,

                          not an original research article. I focused my commentary on an arti- cle titled Armed Resistance to Crime: The Prevalence and Nature of SelfDe-

                          fense with a Gun by Gary Kleck and Marc Gertz.

                          Let me read the first and last paragraphs of the commentary that

                          I originally made, titled A Tribute to a View I Have Opposed. The first paragraph reads:

                          I am as strong a gun-control advocate as can be found among the criminologists in this country. If I were Mustapha Mond of The Brave New World, I would eliminate all guns from the civilian population and maybe from the police. I hate guns-ugly, nasty instruments designed to kill people.

                          The last paragraph of my commentary reads as follows:

                          The Kleck and Gertz study impresses me for the caution the authors exercise and the elaborate nuances they examine methodologically. I do not like their conclusions that having a gun can be useful, but I can- not fault their methodology. They have tried earnestly to meet all objec- tions in advance and have done exceedingly well.

                        • jarhead1982

                          For several decades, studies have been conducted on crime and causalities by various bodies including major universities, criminologists and even the U.S. Department of Justice.

                          These studies have found that approximately 80% of all crime is committed by 20% of all criminals.

                          Some of the studies by these WORLD REKNOWN CRIMINOLOGISTS have provided slightly different numbers but all of them have found that a small group of criminals commit a vastly disproportionate number of crimes than their peers.

                          Some of the studies have provided slightly different numbers but all of them have found that a small group of criminals commit a vastly disproportionate number of crimes than their peers.

                          By the way, where is your government citations and data to prove these WORLD REKNOWN CRIMINOLOGISTS WRONG eh sweety…..ECHOES OF SILENCE!

                          Wolfgang et al ., 1972;

                          Petersilia et al ., 1978;

                          Williams, 1979;

                          Chaiken and Chaiken, 1982;

                          Greenwood with Abrahamse, 1982,

                          Martin and Sherman,1986.

                          http://www.temple.edu/prodes/adobe/dhs_chronic_offenders.pdf

                          http://www.articlesbase.com/criminal-articles/career-criminals-who-are-they-and-what-should-society-do-about-them-1012040.html

                          http://www.academicroom.com/users/joan-petersilia

                          http://www.rand.org/pubs/reports/R2814z1.html

                          http://www.soc.iastate.edu/staff/delisi/DeLisi%20Scaling%20Archetypal%20Criminals%20AJCJ.pdf

                          http://www.rand.org/pubs/reports/R2815.html

                          http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1745-9125.1986.tb00381.x/abstract

                          http://www.threestrikes.org/walsh_pg_one.html

                          http://www.cgu.edu/include/Evaluating%20criminal%20justice%20programs.pdf

                        • jarhead1982

                          http://crimeresearch.org/2016/07/new-study-14-5-million-concealed-handgun-permits-last-year-saw-largest-increase-ever-number-permits/

                          Concealed-carry permit holders are nearly the most law-abiding demographic of Americans, a new report by the Crime Prevention Research Center says—comparing the permit holders foremost with police.

                          “Indeed, it is impossible to think of any other group in the U.S. that is anywhere near as law-abiding,” says the report, titled “Concealed Carry Permit Holders Across the United States 2016.”

                          From 2007 through 2015, permits issued by state and local governments increased by 215 percent, to more than 14 million Americans, according to the data.

                          The study compared permit holders to police, who committed 703 crimes from 2005 to 2007, and 113 of those were firearm violations.

                          “With about 685,464 full-time police officers in the U.S. from 2005 to 2007, we find that there were about 103 crimes per hundred thousand officers,” the report reads. “For the U.S. population as a whole, the crime rate was 37 times higher—3,813 per hundred thousand people.”

                          The study refers to Texas and Florida, which it says mirror most other states, to compare permit holders with police and the overall population. It used data from 1987 through 2015.

                          “We find that permit holders are convicted of misdemeanors and felonies at less than a sixth the rate for police officers,” the report says. “Among police, firearms violations occur at a rate of 16.5 per 100,000 officers. Among permit holders in Florida and Texas, the rate is only 2.4 per 100,000.10. That is just one-seventh of the rate for police officers.”

                          Crime Prevention Research Center President John Lott, a noted economist, said the finding is not surprising considering the rigorous process it takes to get a concealed-carry permit.

                          “The type of person that would go through the process, one in which you can often lose the license for fairly trivial offenses,” Lott told The Daily Signal in a phone interview. “They are reluctant to use the the guns in a wrong way because they have a lot to lose if they do something wrong.”

                        • jarhead1982

                          Lets identify who exactly is responsible for the majority of that violence first.

                          http://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/publications/2011-national-gang-threat-assessment

                          We see where the FBI has repeatedly show how gangs commit the massive majority of violent crimes each year!

                        • jarhead1982

                          Now that we have posted the GOVERNMENT DATA, REPORTS, ETC ETC, that prove blueballs claims to be limper than his flacid member, we will hear the requisite squealing in impotent rage common among proven pathological liars like he and his gay butt luvr mukey pedo boy

                        • mendskyz

                          Bluesman1950, yeah what a country, and why would YOU want to live here if it is so horrible. Why don’t you move to the UK, Australia, New Zealand, or somewhere that has tough gun laws? Ask the founding fathers about their stand on guns because without them we would be nothing more than a British Colony.

                        • Bluesman1950

                          I have lived in the UK all my 66 years, 30 of them as a police officer not carrying a gun and I am very happy here thanks.

                          “…Nothing more than a British colony.”
                          Instead of which you can now be subjects of President Trump! Good luck with that!

                        • mendskyz

                          Then you should keep your nose out of American politics.

                        • Bluesman1950

                          And maybe Americans should stop whining about our successful gun controls.

                        • jarhead1982

                          SUCCESFUL ROTFLMFAO, ROTFLMFAO, ROTFLMFAO, ROTFLMFAO, man you are beyond delusional inferring gun control is the reason for your murder rates as history has shown no such effect, but we agree, gun control of only the law abiding encourages criminals and is a large reason for your 5 times higher violent crime rate of 1,425.26 vcr per 100k versus the US 383.6 per 100k

                        • jarhead1982

                          Why is it blue balls admits they are criminals, yet only wants laws that persecute the law abiding, oh thats right, self defense is ILLEGAL in Lesser Puxxyland, known formerly as the UK

                        • Gray

                          Your link from a politician’s PR firm is meaningless

                        • Bluesman1950

                          How about the FBI?
                          ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2015/crime-in-the-u.s.-2015/tables/expanded_homicide_data_table_8_murder_victims_by_weapon_2011
                          https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2015/crime-in-the-u.s.-2015/tables/table

                          Do they mean anything to you?

                        • jarhead1982

                          Feel free to research the left wing nutjob site and prove they arent manifested manipulated lies, or do you believe EVERYTHING media says, apparently

                    • jarhead1982
                • jarhead1982

                  2010, what happened then, oh thats right Cumbria happened…..such a pathetic liar

                  Hey, lets review how many mass shootings in gun free paradises we have eh!

                  Clearly since these gun ban paradises FAILED to stop these psychotic killings, a 100% guaranteed trend, we see blueballs is pathetically spewing lies yet again….

                  Location Number killed Date



                  Garissa University Kenya 147 4/2/2015

                  Pakistan Military school 142 12/15/14

                  Paris France 128 11/14/15

                  Norway attacks 77 7/22/2011


                  Westgate Mall, Nairobi Kenya 67 9/21/2013


                  Grozny Chechnya 60 2/5/2000

                  Gyeongsagnam-do, South Korea 57 4/27/1982


                  Agricultural College, Potiskum Nigeria 50 9/29/2013


                  Boipatong S Africa 45 6/17/1992

                  Ayotzinapa teaching college, Iguala Mexico 43 September 26, 2014

                  Yobe State Boarding School Nigeria 42 2/25/14

                  Zhaodong China 42 11/18/1995

                  Port Aurthur, Australia 35 4/28/1996

                  Marikana S Africa 34 8/16/2012

                  VA Tech 33 4/16/2007


                  Bacha Khan University Charsadda Pakistan 30 1/20/16

                  Cave of the Patriarchs, Hebron Israel 29 2/24/1994


                  Bisho, Ciskei, S Africa 29 7/9/1992

                  Sandy Hook 28 12/14/2012


                  Tunisia 28 6/26/15

                  Kampala Uganda 26 6/26/1994

                  Offa, Karwa Nigeria 26 12/21/2013

                  Mubi Adamawa Nigeria 25 10/3/2012

                  Luby’s Cafeteria 24 10/16/1991


                  Beijing China 23 9/20/1994

                  Splendid Hotel Ougadougou Burkina Faso 23 1/16/2016

                  Taizz Yemen 22 3/25/1994

                  San Ysidro Massacre 22 7/18/1984

                  Tunis Tunisia 21 3/18/2015

                  Aureti Uganda 21 4/15/1983

                  Igbo Town Hall meeting Adamawa Nigeria 20 
1/7/2012

                  Mogadishu Somalia 20 1/22/2016

                  Baluchistan Pakistan 20 04/11/2015

                  Dhaka Bangladesh 20 7/1/2016

                  Johannesburg S Africa 19 3/28/1994

                  Dunblane, Scotland 18 3/13/1996


                  Erfurt, Germany 18 4/26/2002


                  Trincomalee Sri Lanka 17 8/4/2006

                  Hungerford, UK 17 8/19/1987


                  Cuers, France 17 Sep-95


                  Nshii Rwanda 17 11/6/1995

                  Kandahar, Afghanistan 16 3/11/2012


                  Texas Tower Sniper 16 8/1/1966


                  Winnenden, Germany 16 3/11/2009


                  Ecole Polytechnique, Montreal 15 12/6/1989


                  Columbine High 15 4/20/1999


                  Edmond, OK 15 8/20/1986


                  Zug, Switzerland 15 9/27/2001


                  Meet Al Attar Egypt 15 8/21/2013

                  Yueyang & Xima China 15 11/18/2004

                  Dayukou China 14 10/26/2001

                  Aramoana, New Zealand 14 11/13/1990


                  Binghampton, NY 14 4/3/2009

                  Luxiol, France 14 Jul-89


                  Kamwenge Uganda 14 12/26/1994

                  Fort Hood 13 11/5/2009


                  Cumbria, England 13 6/2/2010


                  Buenos Aires Argentina 13 6/20/1973

                  Rio de Janeiro, Brazil 13 4/7/2011

                  Velika Ivanca, Serbia 13, 4/8/2013

                  Allaipiddy Sri Lanka 13 5/13/2006

                  Bahir Dar Ethiopia 12 5/15/2013

                  Liuhe & Tonghua China 12 9/24/2006

                  Bamako, Mali 12 8/8/2015

                  Aurora, CO 12 7/20/2012


                  Azerbaijan State Oil Academy 12 4/30/2009


                  Paris France 12 1/7/2015

                  Emsdetten Germany 11 11/6/2006

                  Cologne Germany 11 6/11/1964

                  Cape Town SAfrica 11 7/25/1993

                  East London S Africa 11 2/9/2002

                  Chassarda Pakistan 10 4/5/2015

                  McClendon, AL 10 3/10/2009


                  Kauhajoki, Finland 10 9/23/2008


                  GMAC, FL 10 6/18/1990

                  Bait-al-Aqari Yemen 10 5/30/2008


                  Red Lake, MN 10 3/21/2005


                  Adelaide, Australia 10 9/6/1991

                  Lyon France 10, 3/19/2009


                  Siakago Kenya 10 11/6/2010

                  Pakele & Gogonya Uganda 10 3/9/2013

                  Nanterre France 9 2/27/2002

                  Port Harcourt Nigeria 9 4/4/2015

                  Jerusalem, Israel 9 6/6/2008

                  Maiduguri, Nigeria 9 6/8/2013

                  Tatarstan Russia 9 5/4/1992

                  Uhersky Brod Czechozlovakia 9 2/24/15

                  Seapoint S Africa 9 1/20/2003

                  Ladysmith S Africa 9 1/20/1992

                  Murisuvil Sri Lanka 8 12/20/2000

                  Toulouse/Mounteban, France 8 3/11/12 to 3/21/12

                  Mor Hungary 8 5/9/2002

                  Edmonton Canada 8 12/30/14

                  Sana’a, Yemen 8 3/30/1997

                  Auchi Nigeria 7 11/27/2012

                  Tuusula Finland 7 11/7/2007

                  Naples Italy 7 9/18/2009

                  Turin Italy 7 10/15/2002

                  Gomarankadawala Sri Lanka 6 4/23/2006

                  Alphen aan den Rijn Netherlands 6 4/9/2011

                  Liege Belgium 6 12/13/2011 (125 wounded)

                  Pesalai Sri Lanka 6 6/17/2006

                  Belgorod Russia 6 4/22/2013

                  Moscow Russia 6 12/11/2012

                  Belgrade Serbia 5 7/1/2016

                  Berlin Switzerland 5 5/10/2015

                  Touluse France 5 3/19/2012

                  Moscow Russia 5 11/7/ 2012

                  Moscow oblast 5 12/4/2013

                  Gangwon Province S Korea 5 6/21/14

                  Brussels Belgium 4 5/27/2014

                  Tours France 4 10/29/2001

                  Espoo Finland 4 12/31/2009

                  Carmen de Patagones, Argentina 4 9/28/2004

                  Beirut, Lebanon 4 1/25/2007

                  GROSSPRIEL, Austria 4 9/18/2013

                  Balashinka Russia 4 4/23/2007 (home made pistol)

                  Ottawa CA 4 1/22/2016

                  Bamrungsart Pondock Scool Thailand 3 Mar 18, 2007

                  Nenzig Austria 3 5/22/2016

                  Aarhus Denmark 3 4/5/1994

                  Liege Belgium 3 12/13/2011

                  Rotterdam Netherlands 3 4/11/2009

                  Freising Germany 3 2/19/2002

                  Geneva Switzerland 3 2/17/2013

                  Daillon Switzerland 3 1/3/2013

                  SeeJong City S Korea 3 2/25/15

                  Gothenburg Sweden 2 3/19/2015

                  Dawson College shooting, Quebec Canada 2 9/13/2006

                  Café shooting Sydney Australia 2 12/15/14

                  Bucharest Romania 2 3/5/2012

                  Montessori Daycare Quebec Canada 1, April 15, 2013

                  W. R. Myers High School in Taber, Alberta, Canada 1 April 28, 1999

                  The world 2,157 dead in 124 incidents = 17.395 dead per

                  Why is it the average number of dead in mass shootings in gun free zones in the world, is higher than in the US….hmmmmm

                  Funny how this is only the tip of the iceberg for all those mass shootings in all those gun ban paradises eh!

                  If we included all the mass attacks in those gun ban paradises where guns were not used…..its rather frightening how VIOLENT those gun ban paradises truly are…….

                  Based on you anti gunterds claims guns are the root cause of violence, and those countries have 1/7th the number of guns we do, then why aren’t your incidents and deaths not 1/7th of the US eh MORONS?

                  A quick perusal by even the most numerically challenged shows that the US only has 3 of the top 25 shootings. And out of the top 36 we only account for 11 incidents and 17.3% of the dead.

              • Bluesman1950

                So the fact that guns are and have been limited, with various degrees of strictness, for a long time in the UK, whilst the USA has had the right to bear arms is totally unconnected with the fact that your homicide rate with guns last year was 68 times that of the UK? Just pure coincidence and our good luck obviously!

                5 dead and 8 wounded at an airport. http://www.nbcmiami.com/news/local/Shooting-Reported-Inside-Fort-Lauderdale–Hollywood-International-Airport-409905825.html?_osource=SocialFlowFB_MIBrand&_osource=SocialFlowTwt_MIBrand&_osource=SocialFlowTwt_MIBrand&_osource=SocialFlowFB_MIBrand&_osource=
                Thank goodness that didn’t happen in the UK. I wonder why?

            • jarhead1982

              Yeah, getting your gay butt whupped by govt data proving you a pathological liar does tend to wear perverts like you out

            • cargosquid

              Of course you won’t use statistics anymore.
              You keep losing.

              • Mike Breen

                You are five times more likely to be murdered than me and usually with a gun. I don’t lose, you do. All the other feckin about with statistics is NRA fog to cover an unfortunate fact.

                • jarhead1982

                  Actually since you are a criminal, you are 5 times more likely to be murdered than we are cretin.

                • cargosquid

                  Wow…took you 20 days to figure out something to say? You keep losing because you base your argument on statistics. Statistics don’t mean a thing in reality. Brits have the same murder rate that they did BEFORE gun control. It isn’t the guns. But then, there is no valid utilitarian argument to support the infringement of rights. Humans have the right to keep and bear arms.

                  • Mike Breen

                    We akso have a murder rate five times lower than you, and rarely with a gun. You are not human anyway, you are an American skave. Property. You can’t even leave. How does that feel?

                    • cargosquid

                      Wow…..cut back on the meth.
                      It makes you delusional AND makes you misspell words.

                      Yes…I’ve addressed that murder rate, even with you, many times. By your own admission then, gun control has nothing to do with murder rates since your murder rate has basically been flat since 1900, BEFORE the institution of gun control.

                      • Mike Breen

                        Why do you cretins keep putting words in the mouth of others and then come to a judgement on words never said! How come you can’t tell a typo from misspelling? How come so many are dead from gun shot in the USA! How come NO first world country can come close to your murder rate, by GUN! How come your POLICE kill so many!? 12 percent of your gun killings are by your police! And guess what? Meth is not prevalent here! It’s virtually unheard of! And say, how come your freedom to leave was removed?

                        • cargosquid

                          I’ve put no words in your mouth.
                          Multiple typos? So you are admitting that you cannot go back and correct them before posting?
                          Your rantings are humorous.

                          Please tell me more about how I can’t leave……even though I do so at will.

                        • Mike Breen

                          You can’t leave, you are property. Americans are SLAVES. I can tell you all about it, and you will insist that I am mad, have no idea what I am talking about and that google is not a reliable source of information. What does it feel like to be PROPERTY?

                        • cargosquid

                          You really are mentally ill, aren’t you?

                        • Mike Breen

                          No, I’m not. You are just an ignorant slave. Property of the US government and should you attempt to leave the plantation, the punishment will begin.

                        • cargosquid

                          Seek help.
                          Bless your heart.

                        • Mike Breen

                          Seek knowledge, America slave. Try to see beyond your brainwashing. You ARE NOT free to leave the USA. You are a slave!

                        • jarhead1982

                          Yeah, horrible how in order for the government to controll us in the fashion you claim, we would have to be disarmed….hmmm…oh wait, YOURE THE UK PEDOPHILE DEMANDING WE LAW ABIDING CITIZENS BE DISARMED….

                          You really need to make up your mind cretin, you want us to be free of taxation, yet you intend to disarm us to make us vulnerable to the exact thing you are wailing about….

                          Only paid shills and tax slavers act like you…

                        • Mike Breen

                          FATCA. Google. No, I’m not mentally ill. Your brainwashing makes it appear so to you, but you are wrong. Americans are the property of the USA and your government built a wall, to keep you IN. No matter where in the world you go, you will be reported back to the plantation and the punishment will begin.

                        • cargosquid

                          Riiiiight…..

                          Perhaps your tin foil has come loose. You should tighten it. Mostly around the face. Tuck it in. Breathe deeply.

                        • Mike Breen

                          My tin foil hat seems to have a name and MILLIONS of web pages devoted to my tin foil hat, along with court cases in multiple countries including the USA devoted to my tin foil hat. You poor ignorant slave. Again, your ignorance can produce illusions and particularly when you have a life time of brainwashing that leads you to believe you are actually free. Go on, call me insane yet again but DO NOT DO ANY RESEARCH! I would hate to get an American breaking the mould. :-))

                          “Introduced in the House and Senate as Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act of 2009 (S. 1934, H.R. 3933) by Max Baucus (D–Montana); Charles Rangel (D–NY-13) on October 27, 2009
                          Committee consideration by Senate Finance, House Ways and Means
                          Passed the Senate on February 24, 2010 (70-28)
                          Passed the House as the Hiring Incentives to Restore Employment Act, Title V, Subtitle A on March 4, 2010 (217-201) with amendment
                          Senate agreed to House amendment on March 17, 2010 (68-29)
                          Signed into law by President Barack Obama on March 18, 2010″”

                        • cargosquid

                          You still here?

                        • Mike Breen

                          You are still there, but then you would be. What does it feel like being property?

                        • Mike Breen

                          Did you really expect your OWNERS to tell you that your freedom to leave was being revoked? Oh no, much more subtle than that! FATCA now ensures you cannot hide. This from a tax LAWYER, who also has a tin foil hat?

                          “How To Live Outside The United States In An FBAR And FATCA World”.

                          Ten Commandments:
                          1. Thou shalt NOT have a bank or brokerage account outside the United States. If you do so, it must be reported to U.S. Financial Crimes on an annual basis. Failure to disclose is “Form Crime”. You may be fined an amount that is more than 300% of the value of the account.
                          2. Thou shalt NOT marry an “alien”. If you do so, you will have difficulty leaving your estate to him or her. Better to return to the Homeland to search for a suitable spouse.
                          3. Thou shalt ensure that your “alien” spouse agrees to be a U.S. taxpayer. Failure to do so, will result in your having the punitive filing status of “married filing separately”. This will guarantee greater exposure to the Alternative Minimum Tax, the new 3.8% Obamacare surtax, higher tax brackets and lower thresholds for reporting (including FATCA Form 8938) requirements.
                          4. Thou shalt NOT believe that the sale of your principal residence is a “tax free capital gain”. In fact, the sale of your principal residence will trigger a 23.8% capital gain which means that your house cannot be used as a retirement investment.
                          5. Thou shalt NOT buy non-U.S. mutual funds. If you do, you will have your gains confiscated in the form of an “Excess Distribution” Tax. Buy American. Buy U.S. mutual funds.
                          6. Thou shalt buy ONLY “term insurance”. Any other form of “insurance that has cash value” will be treated as a sacred instrument of tax evasion. Furthermore, if you purchase a “foreign insurance policy” thou shalt pay a special excise tax.
                          7. Thou shalt NOT buy or participate in an RESP, RDSP, employer pension plan, or any other kind of retirement planning vehicle which will be considered to be a TAXABLE “Foreign Trust” (with all the attendant penalty laden reporting requirements).
                          8. Thou shalt neither be self-employed NOR carry on business through a non-U.S. (AKA “Foreign”) corporation. If you do, punitive taxes, deemed income, and expensive reporting requirements will descend on you.
                          9. Thou shalt NOT relinquish U.S. citizenship. In the event that you do, you may be subjected to an “Exit Tax” which applies to your “non-U.S.” pension, “non-U.S.” assets, and assets that accumulated after you ceased to live in the United States. In addition, there are certain “Form People” who claim that you may be banished from the Homeland forever.
                          10. Thou shalt file, every year, file the following forms with the IRS: 1040 and all required schedules, FBAR, FATCA, 8938, 8965, 3520, 3520A, 709 (up to a maximum of up to about 45 forms). Understand that this will cost you thousands of dollars.
                          And this ladies and gentlemen, is why your problem is NOT “coming into U.S. tax compliance”. Your problem is “living as a tax compliant U.S. citizen abroad”. It really can’t be done (if you want any kind of life).
                          What does all of this mean practically?
                          Punitive Taxation – Think PFIC and Foreign Investments
                          U.S. citizens abroad also are subjected to the most punitive aspects of both the U.S. tax system and the tax system of their country of residence. In other words, it is NOT possible for them to get a “tax break”.
                          Examples include:
                          • double taxation (example Obamacare 3.8% surtax)
                          • tax payable to the U.S. that is not payable in Canada (sale of principal residence or TFSA)
                          • deemed income that you haven’t received (Avoid Canadian controlled private corporations)
                          • payment of taxes in Canada that are not available as tax credits in the U.S (think HST)
                          • taxation of currency exchange rate based gains
                          Intrusive Reporting Requirements – All of your life is reportable – There is NO financial (or any other kind of) privacy for Americans
                          U.S. citizens abroad are required, under threats of draconian penalties, to disclose almost every aspect of their financial lives to the IRS annually.
                          FATCA and Banking Restrictions – Many U.S. citizens are being dropped from their banks and brokerage accounts because they are U.S. citizens. It’s simply too expensive and dangerous for some financial institutions to have “U.S. person” clients.
                          FBAR – Including children – The simple fact is that, by April 15 (as of 2016) of each calendar, EVERY “U.S. person” (citizen or resident), to the extent that he or she has “foreign financial accounts” (including but NOT limited to bank and brokerage accounts), which (in aggregate) have a highest balance exceeding $10,000 USD, is required to report those financial accounts to the U.S. Financial Crimes (FINCEN). Incredibly, as a recent post describes, this requirement applies to children as well. In fact, the filing of “Your First FBAR” is a right of passage for American citizens abroad. Yup, it’s true. (I won’t get into the draconian penalties for failure to file in this post.) That said, the problem is serious. In fact, an adoption agency in British Columbia has publicly warned people of the dangers of adopting U.S. born children because of the problems of FBAR and citizenship taxation. To learn more: Google “FBAR”.
                          and more …
                          The preceding includes “some examples” of why, for U.S. citizens abroad:
                          The problem is NOT coming into “U.S. tax compliance”.
                          The problem IS living as a “U.S. tax compliant person”.
                          Conclusion and the message for Americans abroad:
                          “Tax compliant U.S. citizens abroad” will live their whole life in the “penalty box” – starting at $10,000 a penalty. As long as they have paid their penalties they will be released to continue to experience the profound injustice of “double taxation”.
                          You have been warned!

                        • cargosquid

                          Tin foil. You should loosen it.

                        • Mike Breen

                          You live in complete denial of easily confirmed fact because you don’t like the facts, and then suggest I’m the one with the tin foil hat?

                          FATCA. Three million six hundred thousand hits on google. Court cases all over the world, record US renunciations rising exponentially year on year. Documented court cases all over the world, particularly USA (Paul Rand), Canada and Israel.

                          IRS.gov. The hunt for Americans.
                          “”Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act
                          The Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act (FATCA), which was passed as part of the HIRE Act, generally requires that foreign financial Institutions and certain other non-financial foreign entities report on the foreign assets held by their U.S. account holders or be subject to withholding on withholdable payments. The HIRE Act also contained legislation requiring U.S. persons to report, depending on the value, their foreign financial accounts and foreign assets.””

                          WIKI…..

                          “”The Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act (FATCA) is a 2010 United States federal law to enforce the requirement for United States persons including those living outside the U.S. to file yearly reports on their non-U.S. financial accounts to the Financial Crimes Enforcement Network (FINCEN). It requires all non-U.S. (foreign) financial institutions (FFIs) to search their records for indicia indicating U.S. person-status and to report the assets and identities of such persons to the U.S. Department of the Treasury.[1] The FATCA was the revenue-raising portion of the 2010 domestic jobs stimulus bill, the Hiring Incentives to Restore Employment (HIRE) Act,[2][3] and was enacted as Subtitle A (sections 501 through 541) of Title V of that law.””

                        • cargosquid

                          You should seek help. Your delusions are overwhelming you.

                        • Mike Breen

                          No, the one who is deluded is you. 3.6 million hits on google, links to numerous reputable sources that point quite clearly to the USA making your life impossible outside of the USA and that the USA has extorted the entire world in to making sure you cannot hide. To google “FATCA” and deny it exists is the action of supreme denial. You are an owned slave, any chance you had of leaving and being left alone was removed in 2010 when Obama signed the HIRE act and FATCA contained within.
                          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7s-8iXmrDt8

                        • cargosquid

                          Weird….I’ve not denied FATCA. I’m just pointing out that you are delusional.

                          Since I’ve been outside the US with no problems, like millions of people, you are revealed to be an idiot.

                        • Mike Breen

                          You are still mistaking your ignorance as my delusion. I know what I am talking about, you do not.

                          You make that quite clear when you claim I must be wrong because you can go on holiday!? HA HA! Did you try LIVING outside of the USA post 2014 when FATCA became fully operational? NO!

                          I have giving you the google search suggestions and you have either not bothered using them because you know you won’t like what you find, or you are still in deep denial.

                          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7s-8iXmrDt8

                        • cargosquid

                          I know many people that are expats. No problem.
                          Your delusion is that I am a prisoner.
                          Your trolling is boring.

                        • Mike Breen

                          Have you spoken to them lately? Are they still Americans? A couple of hundred renunciations year a year 8 years ago to the many thousands today. Now why do you suppose that is? You are a prisoner, you are a slave. That said, like most slaves you can buy your freedom. Thing is, your owners keep putting the price up and more hurdles in the way. Despite that, the waiting lists at some embassies are months long. Why do you think so many are prepared to spend so much to lose US citizenship? God, your denial is sickening.

                        • cargosquid

                          I’m glad that you dislike Obama too.

                        • Mike Breen

                          Would you have a liking for any foreign leader that forced billions of dollars of costs on ALL US families in order that a foreign power could steal money from and make lives impossible for resident US tax paying US citizens, on the grounds their mother was British as well as an American?

                        • jarhead1982

                          Man the IRS agent who took your money must have been a woman, you being a homosexual pedo and all…..that must have really burned yourarse

                        • jarhead1982

                          Says the pedophile UK tax slave

                        • Mike Breen

                          http://www.cnbc.com/2016/05/17/exposing-the-hidden-tax-costs-of-renouncing-us-citizenship.html

                          “”According to Treasury Department figures, 2015 saw yet another record-breaking number of U.S. citizenship renunciations. “”

                          Now why do you suppose people are doing this? I’ll tell you. Normal life is no longer possible for an American outside of the USA. But hey, it’s all a delusion, right? No, you are just in denial.

                        • jarhead1982

                          Yeah, the rats, perverts, pedophiles wanted on felony warrants and criminals see the writing on the wall and are abonding ship before they get jailed, just like you

                        • jarhead1982

                          Yeah, horrible how in order for that to ever happen, we would have to be disarmed….hmmm…oh wait, YOURE THE UK PEDOPHILE DEMANDING WE LAW ABIDING CITIZENS BE DISARMED….

                          You really need to make up your mind cretin, you want us to be free, yet you intend to disarm us to make us vulnerable to the exact thing you are wailing about….

                          Only paid shills and tax slavers act like you…

                        • Mike Breen

                          “”FATCA has caused so much misery for innocent Americans that had the regulation come from any other country it would probably have been treated as an International Incident.””

                          https://haydonperryman.com/2014/10/02/is-fatca-failing-here-is-my-reply-haydon-perryman/

                        • cargosquid

                          You should really seek help for your obsession.

                        • Mike Breen

                          You should seek help for your slavery.

                        • Mike Breen

                          Seek help for your slavery and denial.

                          https://goldsilver.com/blog/john-richardson-talks-fatca-and-us-citizenship-taxation-abroad/

                          “”How citizenship taxation has made U.S. citizenship a disability in the modern world

                          – Why renouncing U.S. citizenship is an excellent investment for “U.S. citizens” not living in the U.S.

                          – How the U.S. “Exit Tax” triggered by renouncing U.S. citizenship operates to confiscate non-U.S. assets outside the U.S.

                          – How citizenship taxation imposes a “capital tax” on any country that has U.S. citizens resident in it

                          – How FATCA allows the U.S. to increase its tax based by expanding the definition of citizenship

                          – How FATCA lowers the international standard of human rights in the world

                          – How FATCA compliance costs will keep the poor countries poor

                          – The FATCA Sanction and the “Weaponization of Finance”

                          – FATCA English and FATCA Forms

                          – Why the U.S. will always prefer FATCA to GATCA

                          – FATCA and the future of the dollar as the major world reserve currency
                          “”

                        • cargosquid

                          I’m touched that you care so much. Bless your heart.

                        • jarhead1982

                          FACTA, a tax controlled by the IRS, who is only chartered to handle TAX ISSUES, so sad

                        • Mike Breen

                          “”Intended Consequences?
                          It might be some small comfort if these were stupid, unthinking IRS-Obama policies. But in my opinion, these are policies calculated to keep Americans investors – along with their cash and assets – at home, where they can be controlled (and their assets confiscated) at will by government.
                          That threat includes the possible confiscation of private pension and retirement plans.
                          These policies have imposed unjust penalties on thousands of innocent American expatriates suddenly caught in a new jungle of paperwork they had no idea existed. “”

                          http://thesovereigninvestor.com/government-politics/the-unintended-consequences-of-fatca/

                        • cargosquid

                          Whatever. Don’t care.
                          Not the topic.

                        • Mike Breen

                          I think it is on topic. Your big claim is that your guns will protect you from tyrannical government. They didn’t.

                        • jarhead1982

                          Yeah, horrible how in order for that to ever happen, we would have to be disarmed….hmmm…oh wait, YOURE THE UK PEDOPHILE DEMANDING WE LAW ABIDING CITIZENS BE DISARMED….

                          You really need to make up your mind cretin, you want us to be free, yet you intend to disarm us to make us vulnerable to the exact thing you are wailing about….

                          Only paid shills and tax slavers act like you

                        • Mike Breen

                          http://citizenshiptaxation.ca/banking-issues-of-u-s-persons/

                          “”Perhaps one of the earliest consequences of FATCA was hearing of the problems Americans abroad were having with banking. Prior to the creation of the IGA’s, FATCA would have imposed a 30% withholding charge on any recalcitrant persons or institutions. In spite of the fact that those possibilities are lessened due to the exchange actions being undertaken by the tax agencies of the non-US countries, the financial institutions continue to lessen ties with those deemed to have “U.S. taint.”
                          denying basic bank accounts, online checking accounts, etc
                          denial of brokerage and investment accounts
                          refusal to renew mortgages
                          foreign bank accounts are being closed
                          losing access to foreign pension plans
                          losing access to foreign life insurance contracts
                          prepaid credit card companies will not accept anyone with US-ness
                          US spouses are having to remove their names from joint accounts and assets in order to protect the family savings
                          in the case of non-working women taking care of families, this can be an especially perilous predicament.
                          People having to choose between losing their life savings to the IRS or losing their U.S. nationality””

                        • cargosquid

                          Since this is a topic about gun control, why are you revealing your delusions about this subject?

                        • Mike Breen

                          I tell you again, your deliberate ignorance and denial is not my delusion. You claim guns protect you from tyrannical government. They didn’t.

                        • cargosquid

                          Not tyrannical yet.

                        • Mike Breen

                          It seems to me that TATCA is about as tyrannical as a government could ever be. And I would love to blame the result on Obama and friends alone, but YOU are fairly typical of the on the street reaction to anybody overseas who is unhappy with this horror, American or not. Bad luck, you say.

                          Me? I made my stand. To the extent that it is possible, I will have nothing to do with US products, goods and services. I know others similarly outraged that the USA would dare reach in to our countries and terrorise our tax payers, residents and citizens for illegitimate taxation, and have gone the same route. NO US goods, services or products for them, either.

                          Of course, you might well chuckle at that, but you wont when managers of billions of dollars in funds decide that the USA has gone well over the line, and with a duty to protect their clients funds, decide that exposure to the dollar and the next attempt at a cash grab using the dollar as leverage might not be possible to avoid.

                          Estimated cost of FATCA worldwide to be paid by the rest of the world and not the USA, possibly a trillion dollars over ten years to raise, in largely illegitimate fines and taxation from other countries, less than a billion a year. Big money is going to be deserting the US dollar faster than citizens are deserting citizenship.

                        • cargosquid

                          Stay on topic. Oh..wait, you are unable to do so because you are an obsessed idiot.

                        • Mike Breen

                          Shut up, you mentally deficient slave.

                        • cargosquid

                          Stay on topic

                        • Mike Breen

                          You mean the way your guns didn’t prevent your tyrannical government from enslaving you?

                        • cargosquid

                          Topic is gun control.

                        • Mike Breen

                          And one of the main excuses for guns for all is to control tyrannical government. FATCA is recent proof that guns will never control government. Tyrannical government will always spin tyrannical law as good law for the majority and the brainwashed masses will swallow it hook line and sinker. In this case, the majority don’t even know the law exists and what it achieves. USA, biggest open prison on the planet and not a shot fired .

                        • jarhead1982

                          There the pedo troll goes again claiming the 13th amendment has been repealed…..so where was the 13th amendment repealed cretin?

                        • jarhead1982

                          Make him you disarmed pedophile puxxy

                        • jarhead1982

                          Man the IRS agent who took your money must have been a woman, you being a homosexual pedo and all…that must have really burned yourarse

                        • jarhead1982

                          Are you aware of what asymmetrical warfare is and how that applies to ANY insurrection in history! See, any who would fight such a tyranny are already resolved to a long, bloody, no holds barred backroom brawl and lets be frank, it wouldn’t be very civil, comprende?

                          Over 20% of insurrections have succeeded in history. 



                          Taliban and insurgents have been fighting in Afghanistan since 2001, uh why hasn’t our military and technical might overwhelmed them?

                          The US civilian population is the most heavily armed of any nation in history to date. 



                          3 mil active duty military personnel in all 5 branches, 1/3 of which are combat ready, the remainder support. 



                          30-35 mil ex military personnel in civilian population and all of them have had their skills and memories erased right! 



                          40% desertion rate in our last civil war and what has been done to change that rate, oh right, nothing. 



                          US civilians have been desensitized to the unleashing of military firepower on US soil, uh yeah right. 



                          You can guarantee all military personnel would obey illegal orders to fire upon civilians eh, lol! 


                          Can you guarantee insurgents wouldn’t get to those commanders families, LOL, oh they will.

                          Lets see, did every see that letter from the 1,100 plus current & former Green Berets tell Obama & the AWB to stick it where the sun don’t shine, LOL! Whose side would they be on were something like a confiscation to occur, LOL!

                          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2HRZfvtYlCY

                          What about the NG unit that wouldn’t disarm law abiding gun owners in Katrina?

                          How about all those sheriff’s, more everyday stating publicly to FOAD on any hints of confiscations, bans or political BS.

                          We see how effective our border security is letting 12 mil illegal aliens and $50 bil in illicit drugs cross each year across our Mexican border alone.

                          How about states passing bill’s and resolutions to arrest BATF attempting to follow such illegal orders.

                          Yet you can guarantee township, county, city, state, and federal border control, lol! 



                          You can guarantee outside forces wouldn’t provide technical and material assistance just as they do today in Iraq & Afghanistan, lol! 



                          What would be the impact on the economy in the US much less globally were all 3 mil active duty military personnel to be recalled to US soil? 



                          How many of the anti gun extremists who would initiate such an event would it take being shot to change their minds? 



                          What makes you think the insurrectionists would fight out in the open, lol!



                          What makes you think the insurrectionists wouldn’t take out the communists family members as a way to get to them, as frankly, nothing about war is civil.

                          What makes you think lists of said communists who would initiate such a war are not already made? Review the book “The Gun Grabbers” by Alan Gottlieb, already has a list of the major players of anti gun lunacy. There are already lists of the minor players, sifting around also, see, govt. isn’t the only one who can make, uh, a “No Fly List”

                          Besides, those who would initiate such an incident have to sleep sometime, drone operators have to go home, etc, etc, etc..



                          What makes you think the media lap dogs of these socialists Nazi’s wouldn’t be one of the targets, lol!

                          Have you documented, traced, and controlled every single piece of machine equipment that is capable

                          of building a firearm, lol!



                          Explain again how one corners a group of people, who unlike our own civil war, are not concentrated in a geographical area like the south, but in every single state, city, township, etc, etc, etc……



                          How exactly are you going to pay for such an act, oh that’s right, you will be taxed more. 



                          You really have no clue about what is or is not capable were such a situation to arise. 



                          Oh so many other technical realities you failed to mention…



                          You probably shouldn’t comment on things of which you have no clue about, makes you look dumber than you are.

                        • Mike Breen

                          “”Dear Mrs. Obama:
                          I gave up my U.S. citizenship this year, so I cannot vote. And if I could, I wouldn’t vote Democrat. It’s not that I hate liberals. I am one. And the Republicans honestly make me sick. The bottom line is America has lost its way in this world, and neither party, in my humble opinion, is going to make any headway in making it better.

                          I have lived abroad most of my life. This is my 46th year in Canada. I married Canadian, my kids are Canadian, not American, I have worked my entire life in Canada. I invest here, and will retire here. I am Canadian, but as you are likely aware, giving up that USA brand is not easy. I have many relatives living in the 50. I used to love to visit them. At the moment, I couldn’t care less if I ever cross that border again.

                          This brings me to my main reason for handing in my passport: you are still taxing me. I hope you continue reading, as I get the sense that homelanders typically shrug off our complaints as sour grapes and tax avoidance. It is anything but. My issues are fundamental. My issues are based on American values and the Constitution. Since those values and the Constitution have failed me, I am gone, as are thousands of others. It is a national disaster, that in my opinion, will be a black mark on your husband’s legacy.

                          I want you to consider the duty to file and pay taxes based on citizenship. It sounds patriotic, and all red, white, and blue, but I’d like to reword it for you: “citizens shall pay taxes to the United States because the U.S. owns them.” They do not have the right to walk away from this obligation, despite what the United Nations proclaims, because the U.S. owns them.
                          They are chattel. They are economic slaves. I am being treated as a slave. I live, work, and pay taxes in Canada, yet my master needs his payment. The concept is against everything I consider American.

                          Consider also sovereignty of foreign nations, something I can’t claim the U.S. has ever respected. The U.S. does not allow foreign countries to step in and tax its businesses and its citizens at home, its economic contributors. America’s practice of taxing its citizens abroad is basically what Mr. Trump accuses Mexico of doing: sending its citizens to America to generate dollars to send home. It is a despicable concept which the Democratic Party has rightly laughed at. Yet this is what you do with citizenship-based taxation, FBARs, and FATCA.

                          You tax monies earned abroad by your citizens. You tax capital gains on private homes in the UK. You apply Social Security and Obamacare taxes on mom & pop businesses operating overseas. You tax lottery winnings considered tax-free economy boosters in foreign lands. Your actions pirate money from foreign economies, and you pretend it is okay because we victims are American.

                          We are not the only victims. Our families, our communities, and our host nations all suffer from your syphoning. You steal funds, jobs, and debt. America is the biggest tax cheater of them all. The fact that you justify it based on patriotism is disgusting to me, and to almost all of the 8.9 million citizens abroad.

                          I could write all day about how I am personally abused. I cannot invest in mutual funds. I face invasions of my privacy and my family’s privacy. I cannot save for retirement, cannot open the financial accounts my neighbours can, etc. America upping its fees to prevent us from leaving is nothing more than extortion. The American government is nothing more than a disgusting bully. If I could still vote, I’d vote for the worst of the opposition, because I hate what your husband and his cabal are doing to American citizens like me.
                          Sincerely,

                          A Canadian, no longer American, in New Brunswick, Canada”

                        • cargosquid

                          And we care….why? Things will change. Anyway…wrong topic. Again.

                        • Mike Breen

                          You don’t care. This is well established. You don’t care that you terrorise the people you claim as US PROPERTY. Unfortunately, as you cannot even understand why you should care that these people are being hounded out of their citizenship, the chances of you understanding how this may well be the death of the USA as you know it are pretty slim. You have abused the trust placed in you under Bretton Woods once too often.

                        • cargosquid

                          Wrong topic. Fix your meds.

                        • jarhead1982

                          Made up lie

                        • Mike Breen

                          So, you say that the thousands (no longer a couple of hundred a year!) of names of those who renounced last quarter is a lie? Well, not quite a lie. It’s not an accurate reflection of the true numbers, because the true numbers are actually much higher when you include relinquishments and those handing back green cards. The waiting lists are also at record level. And had you not made it massively more expensive and difficult to throw of the CURSE of US citizenship, the numbers would be higher still! You see, it’s no longer possible for an American (US person, US definition) to live a normal life outside of the USA. Try, and you will be hunted down and punished. Land of the free?

                        • jarhead1982

                          Yawn…..I stated that only criminals and pedophiles like you are the ones beeiotching……quite accurate in fact those numbers are expected to increase as our country moves away from the rejected pedophile and communist utopia the previous administration was trying to create

                        • Mike Breen

                          What you stated was a lie. The people being persecuted by the US government for daring to live off the plantation cover the whole spectrum of society. But then, you are a nutter.

                        • GAU-8

                          “Persecuted”. LMAO. Except FATCA like you said isn’t a tax, nor does it change tax law (the basics of which for Americans living abroad hasn’t changed since 1860s). And of course you ignore that the deductions and exclusions allowed are extremely generous, really only impacting the top 1% ers. And then you can keep on ignoring most governments still keep their tax hooks in you if you own any property or visit home too often, so better sell everything and live like a nomad. And then wrap up with a comparative analysis of how the socialist tax system bleeds to dry faster before you leave.

                          Explain how many of those persecuted were granted permanent US residency, which they voluntarily sought, and now feel “slighted” because they (1) didn’t bother to read the rules and reverse their residency status; (2) knowingly kept their residency status to keep the doors open to return.

                          44,000,000 legal immigrants to the US, 5,000,000 of which are EU immigrants. 8,000,000 US citizens living abroad. 4,279 US citizenship renounce men’s in 2015. That doesn’t include the millions upon millions holding dual citizenship.

                          Time for full disclosure Mike. How much do people pay you because of your drivel? What rules did you try to break and get caught at?

                        • Mike Breen

                          You are so full of carp.

                          That’s right, FATCA is not a tax. It helps the USA find those it claims as property in order that the USA can persecute those people via a very special tax code reserved just for those who try and live off the plantation. It’s a punitive code, it’s meant to be.

                          Oh yes, that generous allowance before paying US taxes.

                          They should not be paying ANY US taxes! How fecking dare you lay claim to PEOPLE in order to steal from our tax base! Any “generous allowance” merely limits the damage of you wanting to tax these people a second time due to you claiming them as property!

                          Oh yes, the USA is a land of immigrants but do tell me what would happen if the rest of the world started terrorising these new Americans for taxes for the countries they left? You would tell those countries to go take a hike!

                          You filthy dirty thieving hypocrites.

                        • GAU-8

                          If they maintain dual citizenship, they are still subject to their countrys’ tax laws, all of them; because they are citizens of that country. For many countries you have to totally divest yourself of any property and are limited to the days you can spend back there to avoid all taxes.

                          If you are a US citizen you are subject to US tax laws. If the generous exclusions still leave you will a generous tax bill, maybe they should renounce their US citizenship I’d they are that unhappy.

                          FATCA is a foreign account reporting mechanism. Nothing more, and the intent was to root out citizens trying to hide assets. You do realize you can be a US citizen, living in the US and still have money in foreign accounts don’t you?

                          Try to be honest. For full disclosure what did you get caught doing?

                        • Mike Breen

                          Rooting out accounts held by residents would be all well and good, if you cretins did not insist on going against all world norms and insist on punitive taxation of all things foreign to the USA, and then go against all world norms again by applying this punitive taxation to people who do not live in the USA!
                          Like most cretins who defend this obscenity, you keep banging on about people “maintaining” US citizenship. It takes NOTHING to maintain a citizenship imposed on you, it can take HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of dollars to make it go away! YOU made it that way!
                          NO OTHER CIVILISED COUNTRY ON THE PLANET taxes people based on citizenship for good reason. You can not OWN people and punish them for leaving. The right to maintain citizenship and come and go is enshrined in both US constitutional rights and in the UDOHR as set up with the USA!
                          And yet you keep trying to defend your treatment of these people, the denial of their basic human right and the stripping of their constitutional rights on the basis that is they don’t like it, they can renounce!
                          For fecks sake, you have managed to increase US renunciations from a couple of hundred a year to the many thousands, (relinquishments and returned green cards are not included in the numbers, as are the many thousands unable to renounce and those in the waiting lists) at what point will you be happy?
                          You are STEALING from our countries by using people you claim to own as Trojan horses, and you WILL face consequences and they will NOT be good. And that’s the bottom line but you are far too stupid to even try and understand. If you cannot see what is wrong with your tax demands on people who don’t live in your country, then you have no chance whatsoever of understanding why you have signed your own death warrant.
                          FATCA is the big stupid bully who pulled out a big gun, puts it to his own head and said ” do as I say or the idiot gets it”. We’re doing as you say.

                        • GAU-8

                          Citizenship is not imposed, people pay you how much to believe your drivel?

                          Let’s see we have US Persons…these are people who, on their own free will, applied for and received permanent residency status, and then complain because they maintain that status.

                          US citizens, by birth. For people holding dual citizenship all your examples include people who actively maintain dual citizenship.

                          The last thing I notice you refuse to admit is how many exclusions and deductions are given.

                          You know like the $108,000 foreign earned income exclusion and that foreign taxes paid are generally treated as a dollar for dollar tax credit.

                        • Mike Breen

                          YouTube. “FATCA in the Netherlands”. Tell me how these people sought US citizenship? One was born in the USA and left as a child, the other was born in the Netherlands to a US mother. Neither had US passports or even a social security number.

                          That is the IMPOSITION of US tax payer status.

                          Quit banging on about “maintaining” US citizenship when there is no maintenance involved. To have US citizenship imposed requires a person to do precisely NOTHING!

                          On the other hand, you made renunciation of imposed US citizenship the most expensive renunciation in the world. Oddly enough, most people just lived with that imposition rather than hand over a large chunk of their and their families wealth in order to lose it.

                          You give foreign citizens an allowance on their earned income before demanding they send a slice to the USA? How big of you, how gracious, how generous. How unique.

                          How about Ireland plays this game? Millions of Americans deemed Irish citizens, their lives turned upside down by a country an ocean away that has written a very special and savagely punitive tax code just for the Irish that choose not to live in Ireland?

                          And then the rest of the world can get in on this class US act? If they did, roughly 50 million Americans will be paying foreign taxes on top of their US taxes. Oh, and should these Americans try and renounce imposed foreign citizenships, those countries will demand huge chunks of those Americans wealth in order to do that.

                          When your 401 is getting hammered by Ireland and Ireland demands a couple of hundred thousand in order for you to renounce, then you might get the idea.

                        • Bluesman1950

                          Trump’s mother was Scottish. Perhaps the Inland Revenue should have a word with him!

                        • Mike Breen

                          Yup, Trump’s mother was Scottish and Obama’s father was Kenyan. Going by US standards, both of those Americans and their families would be being hounded for taxation for Scotland and Kenya. We don’t even need to guess what the reaction of the hyper hypocritical Americans would be, they already fought a war over a country trying that. Hypocritical to the core.

                        • Mike Breen

                          “What would happen if the African nation copied US tax policy?”

                          The Oval Office phone rings, and is picked up by the 44th president of the United States. White House Chief Counsel Kathryn Ruemmler says, “Mr. President, we have a problem with Kenya. Or more specifically, you have a problem with Kenya.”

                          Go on,” President Obama replies.
                          “Well sir, because your father was born in Kenya, for a brief period back in the 1960s you were actually a Kenyan citizen as well as an American. An accidental Kenyan.”
                          “Yes,” says the president, “But that was very short-lived. As Kenya achieved independence from Great Britain, it voided those citizenship rights.”
                          “Correct,” says Ruemmler. “But a month ago the Kenyan Supreme Court overturned that, and all those revoked citizenships have been retroactively re-instated. Our Supreme Court took similar action years ago in a case brought forward by a Canadian, ruling that the State Department can’t take away an American’s citizenship without due process.”
                          “OK,” says the president. “But so what?”

                          “Well sir, the Kenyan IRS (KIRS) wants you to file tax returns for the last six years, and provide the Kenyan state department with a list of all your bank account balances. It’s all under Kenyan legislation, including something called the Foreign Unknown Bank Account Report, or FUBAR. After that, you must continue filing annual tax returns and FUBARS for as long as you remain a Kenyan citizen.
                          “But it gets worse. Because you are a late filer, you are subject to fines for those FUBARS up to 50% of the total value of all the accounts, per year, for as long as you are out of compliance.”
                          “But, but,” splutters the president. “How can they justify going after my savings accounts. I mean those are joint accounts with Michelle. They can’t go after her half, can they?”
                          “If your name is on the account, KIRS says its all yours. Now, we’re looking into having your name taken off those accounts and just leaving them in Michelle’s name – that might work. You two gettin’ along OK? But there’s more; it’s “all” accounts over which you have signing authority. As far as we can tell, you’ve got signing authority over the entire US of A. They can calculate penalties on annual revenues.
                          “Enough,” says Obama. “I want an immediate appointment at the Kenyan Embassy to formally renounce my Kenyan citizenship to stop this BS.”
                          Exit Tax
                          “A renouncement done for tax purposes won’t be recognized until you’ve paid an exit tax,” Ruemmler explains. “Again, sir, they have mirrored the rules we passed in 2008 in the HEART Act. Their exit tax is 30% of your total assets – money, property, investments. We’re a little nervous about where they might go with that one.
                          “You have to pay your fair share of Kenya’s taxes before you can renounce. Now there is a bit of a break here. Kenya’s Foreign Earned Income Exclusion deducts the first $95,000 annually. Unfortunately, you make $400,000 and you’ll have to pay both US and Kenyan income tax on $305,000. Oh, and you’ll have to pay Kenyan tax on all your investment income. And you have to pay it all in Kenyan shillings – they won’t accept US dollars.

                          “So what if we just tell them to stick it where the sun don’t shine” Obama asks.
                          “You’d be subject to arrest on tax evasion in Kenya. We’re also a little nervous that KIRS might hire US legal counsel and try to slap a lien on the White House. Oh, one more thing, if you stonewall them they’ll use their version of FATCA — the Key Account Formulation Kenya Act, or KAFKA, to order your banks to declare you recalcitrant and close out all your accounts.
                          “I probably don’t have to remind you that this is an election year, and I’m sure the Republicans would structure some attack ads that label you a Kenyan tax cheat. You can expect this to cost you several hundred thousand dollars, but we still think your best option is to come clean. You can’t thumb your nose at the taxman, sir.”
                          Now, that little fantasy isn’t going to happen – much as I wish it would. Even if Obama’s Kenyan citizenship was still valid, Kenya – like the rest of the civilized world bar one – taxes people who live there, not people who were born there and left, or are “accidental” Kenyans like the president once was.
                          In pursuit of so-called tax cheats, the U.S. government is now terrorizing its entire expatriate community worldwide. The scenario I painted with President Obama is being played out for real with ex-Americans.
                          US Persons
                          The Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act, currently going through the implementation phase, demands that all foreign banks tell the IRS who among their account holders are Americans – or “US Persons” as the IRS likes to call them (they want former green card holders, too).
                          These people are not tax cheats, yet they are universally being treated as criminals. They used to be sympathetic Americans for the most part; now they are flocking to consulates and embassies all over the world to begin the relinquishment/renunciation process so they can get the U.S. taxman off their backs once and for all. It’s that or risk financial ruin.
                          If every other nation implemented citizenship-based taxation and followed it up with its own FATCA, global tax chaos would ensue. For example, more than one million Canadians are living in the U.S., and would not be very happy if Canada Revenue Agency hunted them down in California and hit them with a bill for back taxes. This is not an outlandish suggestion; in order to get other nations to cooperate with FATCA the U.S. is offering reciprocity — you know “I’ll show you mine if you show me yours. ”Five European nations, including the U.K., have signed on and others are negotiating.
                          US tax policy
                          If other nations parrot U.S. tax policy, President Obama might not be on Kenya’s list, but nearly 50 million other residents of America would be on somebody’s list, and I bet there’d be some very high profile folks fingered. Consider what kind of cash outflow from the U.S. would result if 50 million immigrants, some of them well-to-do, suddenly had to start filing tax returns and paying taxes to a plethora of other countries.

                          Perhaps the quickest way to get relief for millions of expatriates worldwide is for Kenya to step up and do the right thing — go after that accidental Kenyan in the White House, reinstate his lapsed citizenship, and give him a tax bill. The world would be ever-grateful.

                        • GAU-8

                          Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. Ignored.

                        • Mike Breen

                          Ignore me all you want, but you now know I am right. It is not possible for an American to leave the USA and remain an American, in breach of both his constitutional and human rights under the UDOHR. Americans are tax raising property of the USA and should they leave the plantation, they will be punished. It’s not me you should be replying to, it’s your congressman.

                        • GAU-8

                          What legal authority does the UN have again? The correct answer is zero.

                          you might want to read the 16th Amendment. While nobody likes taxes, the Government has the enumerated power to lay and collect taxes.

                          You might also want to read 1898 United States vs. Wong Kim Ark.

                          https://www.ipe.com/fatca-implications-for-european-pension-funds/52990.fullarticle

                          Maybe if banks weren’t helping hide money this wouldn’t have happened

                        • Mike Breen

                          Banks hiding money? You mean like those in Delaware in the USA, the biggest tax haven on the planet after shutting down the competition? I have no issue with you being able to collect taxes, but NOT FROM THE WORLD! You collect taxes from your residents. nobody else and certainly not from our resident citizens, you thieving PIGS!

                        • GAU-8

                          Actually I can ignore the UN because they have no Authority within the United States I can also ignore the UN because they are a worthless democracy of dictators however on a positive note un blue has excellent visibility through a scope

                        • Mike Breen

                          Do you understand the difference between what you can do and what you should do? Clearly not, and just another sign of your moral bankruptcy.

                          Yes, you can ignore the UN and strip your own people of the basic human rights you agreed to honour, while also stripping them of their constitutional rights. Their crime? Not wishing to live in the USA. Yes, you can do that, and you have.

                          Just as rogue nations throughout history have been able to turn on their own people and on the world. We now understand that you will do what you want.

                          It’s overseas Americans now that are discovering that their government has become an enemy of the people, but it will likely be you next.

                          Regardless, the world is looking to stay well clear of Americans and all things American, the finance world in particular.

                          Did you know that the last time the USA turned on it’s expats as the rich tax dodging pigs that they are, was the year before the USA recorded it’s last ever trade surplus with the world. The FEIE was hastily restored less than three years later, but the damage was done. The USA has never recorded a surplus since.

                          The world will dump the dollar and your economy will tank as the few exports you have now drop yet further, a direct consequence of being unable to put boots on the ground.

                          You defend the utterly indefensible, and you sicken me.

                        • GAU-8

                          What Constitutional right were they stripped of delusional one?

                        • Mike Breen

                          You ignorance is not my fantasy or delusion, fool. How many times do I need to tell you that Americans who leave are subject to a very special regime that you would never tolerate.

                          Unreasonable search and seizure without probable cause (Fourth Amendment), required to testify against themselves under oath (Fifth Amendment), subject to excessive and completely disproportionate fines (Eighth Amendment), and denied equal protection of the laws (Fourteenth Amendment).

                          There are of course others, but you being an American, you can tell me which amendments are toast when freedom to live in peace and be happy is taken away by inability to comply with onerous demands of a nation an ocean away, when you are forced out of your citizenship in order to survive, which is a also a breach of basic human rights as agreed with the UN.

                          But then I must remember that I am talking to somebody so monumentally stupid that he thinks abuse of human rights is ok, because you can.

                        • GAU-8

                          Wow, that’s about as stupid an answer as I have ever heard. I really hope people don’t rely on you for your advice. Maybe Wesley Snipes did….

                        • Mike Breen

                          The stupid answer that you don’t like came from a US layer.

                          If the government demanded every detail of your financial life on the grounds you might be committing a crime with NO EVIDENCE of any wrong doing, and demanded paper work that incriminated you if you filled it in correctly, and then applied a $10,000 dollar fine going back 6 years for every for not reporting that account resulting in a $60,000 fine where no tax was avoided or evaded…..

                          Search without a warrant or just cause.
                          The demand you incriminate yourself.
                          Unreasonable fines out of all proportion to the offence.

                          That is three constitutional rights trampled right there.

                          I note you have a habit of dismissing answers that you don’t like as stupid.

                        • GAU-8

                          I see he didn’t win his case. Point proven.

                        • GAU-8

                          And yet Richardson web site doesn’t make any overt and easily identified reference to those three amendments…

                        • GAU-8

                          Given your inability to read and understand the Constitution I’m curious which UN article you imagine the US is violating. This should be a good laugh.

                        • Mike Breen

                          I have shown you the constitutional rights violated, the UN human rights violated and you even justified abusing those rights on the grounds that the UN has no power. Then you come back and ask me what rights are being abused, again. You are an immensely stupid man. Have you thought of going for US government? You seem to fit the criteria perfectly.

                        • GAU-8

                          None, got it. Next.

                        • GAU-8

                          So somehow because of a state tax laws that comply with all federal requirements you think that is the same as Banks which knowingly and willingly work to physically hide assets from government agencies wow you really are a stupid fool

                        • Mike Breen

                          The one who is the stupid fool is you. The USA has made several US states, Delaware in particular, the biggest tax havens in the world. If you think them complying with all US regulations means that cannot be the case, it just yet again confirms what I know. You are a stupid slave, US property and prepared to defend your owners to the point of complete and utter absurdity. FATCA is going to cost you dearly.

                        • GAU-8

                          Tell us, full disclosure now, what did you caught doing that’s you shouldn’t have been doing?

                        • Mike Breen

                          Why don’t you ask the 8 million or so and their families who were simply living their lives peacefully else where?

                        • GAU-8

                          Were? You mean are? 8,000,000 and what do offer? 4,279 renounced citizenship. 2 in a 1,000, or 0.2 percent, vs. the millions of immigrants to the US every year. 8,000,000 living abroad as US citizens under a tax code that has included US citizens living abroad since 1865.

                        • GAU-8

                          Apparently you do have an issue with United States tax laws and their effect on US citizens and US persons

                        • Mike Breen

                          If you still cannot understand why EVERYBODY should have issue with what the USA has done with FATCA, including you, then you are a very stupid man indeed. The blowback is coming your way.

                        • GAU-8

                          But I like your story…..tell me when did the US pass tax law making status retroactive?

                        • Mike Breen

                          That “story” is reality for millions, fool. Yes, the USA changed the law regarding certain relinquishing acts following a court case brought by, I think, a Canadian. It made thousands US citizens again after they had been told they had committed a relinquishing act, such as taking Canadian citizenship. Do your own googling.

                        • Mike Breen

                          I’m sure you can google for more information, but you won’t like what you find, as it will show I am right. Thousands who were told they had relinquished citizenship by taking another were told that they were still Americans, SO PAY UP!

                          “”In 1990, the Bureau of Consular Affairs adopted an alternate presumption for three of the expatriating acts detailed in the INA. It is now presumed that a U.S. citizen intends to retain his U.S. nationality even if he naturalizes in a foreign country; takes a routine oath of allegiance; or accepts a non-policy level employment with a foreign government.19 To turn these actions into an “expatriating act,” a person must “affirmatively assert to a consular officer, after he or she has committed a potentially expatriating act, that it was his or her intent to relinquish U.S. citizenship.”20
                          At first, the new presumption had a limited retroactive application. The Bureau of Consular Affairs initially gave persons who had presumptively lost their citizenship under the old rules the opportunity to have citizenship “reinstated.” To do so, a person was required to submit a formal claim to the Department of State. Citizenship was reinstated so long as, at the time of the expatriating act, the person had not specified in writing that he intended to relinquish his U.S. citizenship. Since few people did so, and because the presumption was automatic and did not require any formalization, citizenship could easily be retroactively reinstated.21 THE INA NO LONGER REQUIRES A WRITTEN REQUEST FOR RETROACTIVE REINSTATEMENT OF U.S. CITIZENSHIP. In fact, the INA now requires a person who committed an expatriating act after 1961 to establish, by a preponderance of the evidence, that he intended to relinquish his citizenship at that time””.

                        • GAU-8

                          As usual . You give a cherry picked partial answer.

                        • GAU-8

                          8 usc 1481 is pretty clear.

                          “The burden shall be on the person” and supported by the preponderance of the evidence

                        • Mike Breen

                          What you are doing now is known as “diversion”. You now seek to divert in a fog of rules, laws and statistics in order to bury simple facts. Just as you do with your guns. I have proved beyond doubt that you are a slave and your masters are thieves. You asked for proof, you have it in abundance. You asked how a law could be retrospective and make US tax payers of those who has relinquished, and I have shown you. Go to the Isaac Brock society and tell them all about how their complaints are nonsense, and prepare to get shredded by people that have every right to hate you and your damn country.

                        • Mike Breen

                          “”Let’s see we have US Persons…these are people who, on their own free will, applied for and received permanent residency status””

                          Completely and utterly WRONG! If you can’t even get the basics right, such as who the USA considers to be a “US person” and a US citizen, it’s no wonder the rest of your argument is such complete and utter bull droppings.

                          The USA imposes citizenship and US taxpayer status on any person born in the USA or born to US parents anywhere in the world, no matter that they have not spent an adult day in the USA and no matter that they are citizens of other countries.

                          No “applying” is required.

                        • GAU-8

                          Congratulations on not bothering to read …. I guess “US citizen, by birth” was too complex for you.

                        • Mike Breen

                          I’m not allowing your ignorance to take up too much of my time. Here’s a longer read, by a once proud American who served his country. It’s a bit long winded but stick with it, because he eventually does a pretty good job of explaining the impossibility of being an American and living outside of the USA.
                          The huge amount of time and effort in attempting tax compliance.
                          Huge expense.
                          The never ending threat of monstrous fines for “form crime”.
                          The no-win choice of which countries laws do you break?
                          The pressure on his family life.
                          The pressure on his work life.
                          The requirement to spy on and report his Japanese families finances.
                          The requirement to spy on and report his Japanese employers finances.
                          The discrimination he faces in Japan due to the demands of the USA.
                          The requirement to prove his innocence to the Financial Crimes Enforcement Network, with a $10,000 fin for getting the form wrong where no tax was avoided.
                          The blatant removals of his protections under the 4th/5th/6th/8th and 14th amendments.

                          And you know what? He’s only scratched the surface, as he will discover when he has kids and property in his own name. Then the taxes start.

                          https://www.finance.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/Todd%20Stoudt1.pdf

                        • GAU-8

                          I’m not even sure there was a point in that cherry picked diatribe…but keep picking cherries…I’ll bake a pie.

                        • Mike Breen

                          Oh, and only the one percent effected because of an allowance you give people before STEALING from them? That allowance does NOT cover unearned income. This means that the USA tax code is PARTICULARLY damaging to those on middle to low income.
                          Reasons.
                          The cost of professional tax preparation is a significant proportion of their income.
                          Many social payments are not US tax deductible. Unemployment benefits, some forms of pension income, disability benefit. Yes, you STEAL from disabled citizens of other countries leaving the tax payers of those countries to pick up the bill.
                          That’s before we even get on to the list of punitively taxed investments, because the USA always punitively taxes foreign investments but these people have ALL THEIR lives foreign to the USA, so you screw them every which way!
                          I ask again, how about we ALL apply the same criteria as the USA and ruin the lives of at least 50 million Americans with vicious foreign tax regimes while stealing billions in taxes and fines from the USA? But hey, we’ll give them an earned income exclusion, so that’s all rosy, right?
                          You and your ignorant countrymen (with a nod to those who understand this monstrous injustice) just make me want to vomit.

                        • Mike Breen

                          Here you go, this is the sort of places you are sticking your dirty money grubbing little paws in to. The Canadian tax payer funded disability savings plans of Canadian citizens. It’s one of hundreds of examples of you dirty thieving people at work. You attempting to justify what the US is doing merely confirms what I know. You are as morally bankrupt as your owners.

                          “”RDSPs and FATCA: Warning to People With Disabilities With Any Connection to the U.S.””

                          On March 18, 2010, the United States (US) announced a world-wide provision known as the Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act (FATCA) which demands that every non-US financial institution on earth—such as all Canadian banks and credit unions—must enter into an agreement with the US government to report to its tax agency all accounts held by US residents and US citizens—including US citizens that are residents or citizens of Canada—or face a 30% exaction.

                          Ultimately this means any Canadian resident with an RDSP that is also a US citizen is required by the US to pay income taxes to the US on any plan growth. It should be noted that the US typically considers children born of a US citizen to also be US citizens, even if they were born in Canada and have never set foot in the United States. In addition, this rule would affect the accounts of any Canadians with a US spouse or other family member, with whom they may hold assets jointly, as well as Canadians who may have temporarily lived or worked in the States.”

                        • GAU-8

                          Funny, the Canadian Bankers Association says RDSP are EXEMPT from reporting.

                          And by the way RDSP are subject to Taxation by Canada.

                          And of couple that with foreign tax credit…You are at net net of zero.

                          Try to be honest

                        • jarhead1982

                          The IRS only controls tax matters, so by law it cant be anything but a tax….why are you too stupid to realize that cretin???

                        • jarhead1982

                          Because mukey pedo puffer is desperate to divert away from repeatedly being proven a liar

                        • jarhead1982

                          Man that really sucks you being such a perverted POS pedophile and git all that money taken from you by the IRS assett tax, bet money if we do a freedom of information search on the number of complaints against the IRS for that tax, we will find one name repeatedly filing complaints from the UK, and then we have your real name and address………DOOOOH….no more hiding, so sad

                        • Bluesman1950

                          Yes FATCA is entirely a delusion in Mike Breen’s imagination.

                          It’s so bad that it’s fooled the IRS into thinking that it’s real too!
                          https://www.irs.gov/businesses/corporations/foreign-account-tax-compliance-act-fatca

                        • Mike Breen

                          That’s the fella. It does not take many more minutes to find that FATCA has highlighted and enforced America’s dirty little secret, citizenship based taxation or put another way, government ownership of people. Sadly for Americans, it’s also highlighted the fact that the USA really, REALLY does not like Americans living off the plantation and makes it VERY clear to those who can no longer ignore the fact. Land of the free my asp…….

                        • cargosquid

                          Its the rest of his delusions that are the point.
                          Are you joining in the collective nonsense? I already know your statist position on the human right to keep and bear arms.

                        • Bluesman1950

                          The right to be 68 times less likely to be shot in the UK than the USA?

                          Your tax problems are yours.

                        • cargosquid

                          Oh look. You are making things up again.

                        • Bluesman1950

                          Pity you can’t say what it is I am making up and counter it. Still, blank denial is probably the best that you can manage.

                        • cargosquid

                          Well, since you and Breen are using different numbers on how many more times it is more likely for me to be murdered, one of you, and probably both of you, are making things up. Again. But then, AGAIN, there is no valid utilitarian argument to infringe on human rights like the right to keep and bear arms.

                        • Bluesman1950

                          At different times people refer to different periods, so the specific numbers may vary. Last year you were around 5 times more likely to be murdered in the USA than the UK and 68 times more likely to be murdered with a firearm. Minor variations do not invalidate the overall point.

                          The greatest good of the greatest number is a Utilitarian principle. 8124 dead sounds like a bad number!

                        • cargosquid

                          And that utilitarian principle is still invalid when it infringes on human rights.

                        • Bluesman1950

                          The right to life not, apparently, being one of them.

                        • cargosquid

                          The right to keep and bear arms protects the right to life. We already have laws against murder. Everyone has the right to self defense.

                        • Bluesman1950

                          Pity it didn’t work for 8124 Americans last year.

                        • jarhead1982

                          Yeah, most of those were mukey pedop puffers NAMBLA friends, no pity actually

                        • cargosquid

                          You are correct for once. Perhaps, if some of those people had been allowed to be armed, the outcome would have been different.

                        • Bluesman1950

                          You mean all the police officers shot dead were unarmed?

                        • cargosquid

                          Only people like you think arms are magic shields.

                        • Bluesman1950

                          “if some of those people had been allowed to be armed, the outcome would have been different.”

                          “Only people like you think arms are magic shields”.

                          That appears to be more your view than mine

                        • cargosquid

                          I fully admit that Brits are more law abiding. Gun control has nothing to do with it.

                        • Bluesman1950

                          Except, of course that we have very few guns and no legal private handguns, whilst guns are used in over 60% of your murders but less than 10% of ours.

                          We are almost 70 times less likely to be murdered with a gun than you.

                        • cargosquid

                          And yet…. your murder rate hasn’t changed appreciably since BEFORE you infringed on the rights of Brits. Must not be the gun control. No matter what you say, you cannot get rid of that fact.

                        • Bluesman1950

                          “…infringed on the rights of Brits.”
                          What, the 0.01% of the population who had handguns for target shooting only?

                          Gun control did not start in 1997 but has been a process since the 19th century, or even earlier. Nobody in my family, or anybody I know or knew has ever possessed a private firearm, except a few shotguns and .22 rifles held by farmers. It is the fact that Britons do not habitually carry firearms and have not done for the last century or two that stops people being shot dead at the rate of Americans.

                          It is very difficult to shoot somebody if you don’t have a gun!

                        • cargosquid

                          I know that gun control started around 1900. And the murder rate didn’t change. But people before WWII had many more guns than they do now. And less crime.
                          Weird how that destroys your narrative.

                        • Bluesman1950

                          “Weird how that destroys your narrative.”
                          Weird how you believe that fewer guns do not equal fewer shootings!

                          How many people have been shot dead by unarmed criminals lately?

                        • cargosquid

                          Fewer guns equals fewer shootings?
                          Funny….. Chicago has fewer guns.
                          Mexico has fewer guns.
                          In fact many nations with a higher gun murder rate have fewer guns.

                          Must not be the amount of guns.

                        • Bluesman1950

                          How many guns are there in Chicago or Mexico? Not registered legal guns, actual guns. If you know, how do you know.

                        • cargosquid

                          How many people are shot BECAUSE they don’t have guns?

                          You keep forgetting. People have the inalienable human right to keep and bear arms.

                        • Bluesman1950

                          “How many people are shot BECAUSE they don’t have guns?
                          In Britain, hardly any. All people who are shot are shot because someone has a gun.

                          “You keep forgetting. People have the inalienable human right to keep and bear arms.”
                          You keep labouring under the illusion that your ‘right’ is almost exclusively an American problem. Where is that ‘right’ set out as universal?

                        • cargosquid

                          Right. In England, which still has gun murders prevents their citizens from fighting back.
                          Isn’t that special.

                        • Bluesman1950

                          We had 1/68th your rate of gun murders last year, so a bit special!

                        • cargosquid

                          Good for you.
                          Your culture has always been less violent, even when our gun laws were similar.
                          Too bad you keep wanting to increase the restrictions on self defense.

                        • Bluesman1950

                          If by “increase the restrictions on self defense”, you mean not allowing general access to firearms, I think the USA provides enough of a example to convince the 92% of the population who want to maintain or tighten our existing regulations.

                        • GAU-8

                          “That the subjects ….may have arms for their defense…” be damned. So much for the English Bill of Rights.

                        • Bluesman1950

                          “That the subjects ….may have arms for their defense (sic)..”
                          Did you make that ‘quote’ up all by yourself, or was it on the Seattle Tribune hoax website?

                          What the Bill of Rights, 1689, actually says is:
                          “That the subjects which are Protestants may have arms for their defence suitable to their conditions and as allowed by law;”

                          So the right extended only to Protestants “suitable to their conditions” i.e. their class, and was “as allowed by law”, not universal or unconditional

                          So much for your attempt to edit the English Bill of Rights! Perhaps you would like me to edit your 2nd Amendment for you!

                        • GAU-8

                          So not allowed is an acceptable legal restriction. Spoken like a true spineless progressive sheeple. I guess you missed the commentary by your Sir William Blackstone: “the right of having and using arms for self-preservation and defense” is essential to safeguarding the three absolute rights of all Englishman, personal security – personal liberty and private property.

                          Accordingly the right to bear arms flowed from your (English) belief that you had “a natural right of resistance and self preservation, when the sanctions of society and laws are found insufficient to restrain violence…”

                          You know, like your 779, 027 violent acts against people in the year ending March 2015.

                          But then again, I forget you are just another progressive sheeple who will defend his master’s oppression for the false promises they made.

                        • Bluesman1950

                          Editing the Bill of Rights to try to make it read the way you want it to is the best you can manage?

                          “779, 027 violent acts against people in the year ending March 2015.”
                          Which ended in just 20% of the homicide rate experienced in the USA! Why would that be? Surely not because we count around 50 offences as ‘violent’ whilst you count only 4!
                          Learn to read.

                        • james lucas

                          And how many crimes committed by police officers? NYPD, 30th precinct, 30 officers for drug dealing. Another city, Newark, officers burglarizing warehouses while on duty. And others like the Rodney King beating by four cops seen in a movie, only one gets convicted! I have met and dealt with some very trustworthy officers, but only a few after my FULL BIRD COLONEL uncle warned me about being careful what cops I spoke to based on people he knew in the DEA that told him of the moles in their department. And the former police chief in my town was crooked as well, and retired.

                        • GAU-8

                          I’m sorry, I didn’t want to get into how you mistreated the Catholics. I didn’t want to seem like I was adding religious hatred onto your history of slavery.

                        • Bluesman1950

                          Trying to divert attention from your attempts to deceive? How very Trumpist of you!

                        • GAU-8

                          No attempt. You refuse to admit you simply allowed your rights to be taken away, no wait….You volunteered your rights and refuse to admit the result is not a safer little island.

                        • Bluesman1950

                          Over 4.5 times less likely to be murdered seems safer to me.
                          2.6 times less likely to need hospital treatment following an assault seems safer to me.
                          68 times less likely to be shot dead seems safer.
                          60 times less likely to be shot dead by the police seems safer.
                          5 times less likely to be imprisoned sounds safer.

                          We obviously just have different definitions of ‘safe’.

                        • GAU-8

                          I like how you avoid real number. So in the US that would be 2112 more murders (normalised to your population), but you get 67,000 more rapes; 245,000 more assaults; and 189,000 more home invasions. Yeah, you are safe.

                          but I wouldn’t brag about just letting violent persons off with a stiff warning…maybe that’s why your assault and rape rate is 3 and 4 times higher respectively.

                          I won’t address medical because your making conclusions on data that you have no comprehension of.

                        • GAU-8

                          Tyrannical. Well at least you got that right. Just proving you’re a typical progressive, rights are subject to some twisted utilitarian cost model. Can’t wait till to justify away all your rights.

                        • Bluesman1950

                          How awful listening to what 94% of the population want to try to prevent more children being massacred!

                          I only we had a system where a minority of the population could elect a Kremlin puppet to be our ruler, so much more democratic!

                        • GAU-8

                          Next step then 94% of you can vote the other 6% pay all the taxes, that’s democratic too. Of course the 94% didn’t protect those thousands of young women from being “indoctrinationed” did they?

                          So hey, vote away some more rights….what’s next thought police monitoring what you say on Twitter? Oh wait, you already have that….never mind sheeple…carry on with your life in the pen

                        • Bluesman1950

                          Actually, the top 3,000 earners in the UK pay more tax than the bottom 9,000,000, but they’re obviously not as ‘smart’ as your President-elect!

                          Yes democracy is a real bugger isn’t it. That pesky government doing the will of the vast majority of the electorate. Perhaps they should just the NRA run the show in the USA.

                          “indoctrinationed” (sic) Is that what the Kremlin has done to Trumpuppet?

                        • GAU-8

                          Democracy = mob rule

                          We are a republic, with a representative government. POTUS cannot make laws.

                          And rights, cannot be voted away.

                          Sheep, will you ever learn?

                        • Bluesman1950

                          “Democracy = mob rule”

                          So what would you prefer?

                        • GAU-8

                          You apparently forgot the US is a Republic, with a representative government and a Constitution that defines specific limited powers of government, coupled with a Bill of Rights that further constrains the actions of government. Our civil liberties exist regardless of government and thus cannot be voted away. What you allude to in your 0.1% argument is the ability of a majority to control the rights of a minority, in other words a form of slavery.

                        • Bluesman1950

                          So the USA is not a democracy? Interesting. No wonder Russia sees it as an easy target.

                        • Bluesman1950

                          “twisted utilitarian cost model.”
                          Yes, counting the cost of the lives of 16 children against the benefit of 0.01% of the population being able to play with their lethal weapons. How twisted!

                        • GAU-8

                          How did leaving defenseless all those rape victims play into your equation? Did it stop Cumbria? The bombings? Or was it an excuse, part of the never let a good crisis go to waste playbook to achieve unrelated political goals?

                        • Bluesman1950

                          “How did leaving defenseless all those rape victims play into your equation? Did it stop Cumbria? The bombings? ”

                          Not arming potential rapists might also be a good idea.

                          The Cumbria massacre was carried out with a legally held shotgun and .22 rifle by a legal firearms holder!

                          How many bombings have been stopped by firearms in the USA? Boston Marathon, WTC 1993, Omaha City, the Unabomber?

                        • cargosquid

                          And by prosecuting those that defend themselves.

                        • Bluesman1950

                          How many examples can you find of people being prosecuted for using reasonable force to defend themselves in the UK?

                        • Mike Breen

                          How many of our UK gun deaths were complete innocents killed by the bad guy, as opposed to gangster squabbles and suicides? And out of that tiny number, how many would have saved themselves with a gun? I don’t know, but I would guess that it’s less than TEN. Possibly nearer to FIVE.
                          And for that possibility, you suggest we arm 6.3 million people?
                          Starting an arms war with criminals and giving everybody a gun results in a negative sum game where loads more people get killed, the opposite to what you were trying to achieve.
                          The USA is proof positive of that.

                        • GAU-8

                          Thats right you are more of a 130,000 knife attack a year kind of nation.

                        • Bluesman1950

                          How many people need hospital admission after all these ‘attacks’, or have you forgotten?

                          I wonder why your knife homicide rate is so much higher than ours?

                        • GAU-8

                          Let’s see I’ll confirm you have no idea what the CDC data means.

                          In my 20s I was assaulted. I threw the second and last punch. The assailant spent 8 hours in the hospital trying to remember his name. The CDC would record that as an assault injury. Care to tell me how many other CDC records address assailant? Oh thats right, you cant because that data isnt known.

                          come back when you know what you are talking about.

                          Meanwhile for the year ending March 2015 you recorded a violent crime rate of 950 vs. 383 per 100k.

                        • Bluesman1950

                          So you agree that there was one assault, even though it was the aggressor who went to hospital, still one assault.

                          Similarly, the UK statistics do not distinguish guilt either. So your point is?

                        • GAU-8

                          I don’t use your hospital data, not that I would trust it anyway. Health Services reporting in the UK is gamed even more than police reports.

                        • GAU-8

                          Wow, you can rationalize anything can’t you? Impressive.

                        • Bluesman1950

                          So there was no assault resulting in one person going to hospital? Are you getting confused again?

                        • GAU-8

                          I see, weapons only count I’d they are used. Enjoy your delusional little sheeple world slave

                        • Bluesman1950

                          But not a ‘1544 stabbed to death nation’ like yours! Americans are far more likely to be murdered with knives than Britons. I wonder why?

                        • GAU-8

                          Wonder away. That would be almost impressive except that once you account for population differences our numbers are very close.

                        • Bluesman1950

                          Not that close. Taking population differences into account, you are 70% more likely to be murdered with a knife in the USA than the UK.

                        • GAU-8

                          Actually adjusting 2015 for population its 259 US vs. 186 UK, a difference of 73.

                          Sucks to be you.

                        • Mike Breen

                          I wonder how you could be so stupid as to think Blues would present a number that did not account for population difference. Yet another dumb American trying to explain away uncomfortable truths with population difference. Sheesh.

                        • GAU-8

                          He didn’t ….do your homework. Bye.

                        • Mike Breen

                          He did. Next.

                        • GAU-8

                          Try again. Or maybe get new batteries for your calculator.

                        • GAU-8

                          Reference FBI UCR 2015 homicides, table 8. 1544 by knife. That dipstick in the context presented by your boy is not population adjusted. Adjusted to the UK population that would be 259. UK had 182. Difference changes when you the same base. Do try to stay current and correct.

                        • Bluesman1950

                          That’s right. You are around 50% more likely to be stabbed to death in the USA than the UK and over 6,000% more likely to be shot dead.

                        • GAU-8

                          Cogratulations on almost mastering 4 function math for liberals.. meanwhile in the land of reality the criminal homicide difference is 0.0035 per 1,000. Yet in the UK you are 80% more likely to be raped (0.3 per difference); 300% more likely to be assaulted with injury (4.6 per 1,000 difference); 400% more likely to be victim of a home invasion (0.6 per 1,000).

                          We have the right to keep and bear arms and right to self defense, criminal activity results in a 0.0035 per 1,000 increase in homicide risk; you have gleefully voted away both those rights with a 5.5 per 1,000 risk if being a victim of rape, assault, home invasion.

                          Sure, you can pretend you “won”…in a Charlie Sheen “winning” kind if way.

                          Have a nice life.

                        • Bluesman1950

                          Pleas use your “4 function math” to explain to the families of the 800 dead and the 1549 wounded so far, in less than 3 weeks of this year, why they are so lucky to live in the USA!

                          Does “4 function math” cover why your statistics don’t count simple assaults whilst ours do?

                          Does “4 function math” explain the difference in definition of definition, reporting and recording of rapes in the USA?

                          How does “4 function math” account for the vastly greater number of hospital admissions for assault in the USA than the UK?

                          Why, despite “4 function math” , are you over 450% more likely to be murdered in the USA than the UK?

                          Please explain how “4 function math” explains why 3 law enforcement officers have been shot dead in less than the first 3 weeks of this year, whilst none have been thus killed in the UK since 2012?

                          Have a nice life, as long as it may be.

                        • GAU-8

                          Except I didnt use over 1/2 your “assaults” but when I their in both the numbers are still the same relative difference.

                          Same definition if rape, but you already knew that.

                          Hospital admissions? Beyond merely we have 5x as many people and oversample cities (your never did read the CDC reporting methodology did you, non fatal data US by sampling).

                          Law officers? Let me guess..standard UK protocol is to wait for the armed response unit if the police suspect an armed suspect? I bet a lot of suspects stick around waiting too.

                          But I see you are still clawing for something to cling to.

                          You go with that.

                        • Bluesman1950

                          4.7 times the murders!

                          You go with that.

                        • Mike Breen

                          Did he really just explain away yet another unfortunate number with “we have five times as many people”?

                        • Bluesman1950

                          Yes, the great statistician does not seem to understand the concept of ‘per capita’!

                        • Mike Breen

                          He’s also regressed to insisting the UK has 5 times as much violent crime and that this is linked to gun bans. I have no more time and energy to repeat myself to him. He’s joined jarhead on the banned list.

                        • Bluesman1950

                          I’m just waiting for his reply to my comments on the video he posted of policemen apparently doing nothing whilst a woman is forced into the boot of a car. Why he thinks that the actions of Serbian or Polish police, which they appear to be, are relevant to anything under discussion, I’m not really sure!

                          I’ll probably bin him after that.

                        • Mike Breen

                          He’s not a lot different to jarhead in some respects. Differences of opinion are one thing, but to now go back to repeating totally debunked nonsense about UK violent crime being 5.5 times higher and linked to gun bans shows he a liar and very stupid. What now, explain to him again why UK violent crime figures are higher only for him to still be here in a years time insisting UK violent crime figures are 5.5 times higher? Nah, blocked.

                        • GAU-8

                          0.0035 per 1,000…so much less than.your 5.5 per 1,000 more likely to be raped, assaulted or suffer a home invasion

                        • Bluesman1950

                          “0.0035 per 1,000…so much less than.your 5.5 per 1,000 more likely to be raped, assaulted or suffer a home invasion”

                          So you want to compare your murder rate, with our alleged rates (unsupported by evidence from you) of different crimes! Why haven’t you included our 376,000 stolen bicycles too?

                          How about comparing your murder rate with our murder rate, or is that so embarrassing that you need to keep changing the subject?

                        • GAU-8

                          Oops you forgot I gave you the references…

                          I’m sorry didn’t I just say the difference in homicide rate? I didn’t stutter did I? I just just bring it back to reality, instead playing progressive games…

                          Don’t you have some rights you want to vote away?

                          But I did find the UK police standard response to an armed suspect….it’s all in this picture… https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/133cff9cb555f6043b07eac023ab729cf773895aa2d84c1f1e627300e6bb6de9.jpg

                        • Bluesman1950

                          Whereas the US police response to an armed or unarmed suspect is to shoot them.
                          https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/video/2015/jul/01/us-police-killings-this-year-the-counted-video

                          So, how do our murder rates compare?

                        • GAU-8

                          Muslims Chase Cops in London in 2009….Police Run for Cover …

                        • Bluesman1950

                          Wow, as recently as 2009, a mere 8 years ago, you can find images of temporarily outnumbered police officers retreating during a demonstration in which neither side was using firearms and nobody was killed or seriously hurt!

                          That would never happen in the USA would it?
                          https://conservativedailypost.com/breaking-mass-riots-in-charlotte-police-outnumbered-and-forced-to-retreat/

                        • GAU-8

                          Just playing your confirmation bias game right back.

                          http://www.dailymail.co.uk/video/news/video-1192409/Police-stand-woman-bundled-car-boot-gang.html

                          Video #2….police stand by while women is shoved into a car trunk and driven off.

                        • Paul

                          That video is nothing less than the collapse of civilization. Be afraid, very afraid.

                        • GAU-8

                          Good thing I don’t live in “civilization” … I’ve already done my penance (Chicago, LA and NYC). I’ll take the risks of living here

                          https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/aa81b4667d02f1435f25459087715a18f4df793acc21c7b8021867d9b8e84b71.jpg

                        • Paul

                          Man, I’d dearly love to fish that river. Even if I never got a nibble.

                        • Jubal Early

                          Most of the time, I don’t go fishing to catch fish, I do it so I don’t have to do all of the other stuff that I don’t want to do. https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/48310da01331949ae0b6ac3a8009f6b27798f28e9e58a8fe0f5d37bbbc274281.jpg

                        • Paul

                          Fishing is the most natural thing in the world to me.
                          When I’m fishing, I’m just me.

                        • Bluesman1950

                          Very interesting, but you do know that we drive on the left in the UK and that ‘Poljica’, which is on the back of their jackets, is Croatian, not English, don’t you?

                          What an untitled piece of film showing armed East European police officers, doing something unexplained, has to do with your point or mine I am at somewhat of a loss to understand.

                          I know that this was shown on the Daily Mail website, but then so has been Donald Trump, it doesn’t mean he has been made Queen!

                        • GAU-8

                          Good catch….I missed that…meanwhile….

                          “The Metropolitan police commissioner has declared that the “warning lights are flashing” as the latest official figures confirmed a rise in violent crime across England and Wales, particularly in murder and knife crime. Violent crime in England and Wales has risen by 22%….”

                          https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jan/19/crime-figures-show-and-knife-offences-rising-ons-england-wales

                          https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/4d4cb9b19b712a719511e8a94ec0dc8204ffa12f9e157de51ad6a830cb247ac0.jpg

                        • Bluesman1950

                          Gosh, let’s hope that we don’t get as high as a quarter of your murder rate!

                        • GAU-8

                          If you bothered to dig beyond your bias and prejudice you might learn something. But apparently that is not going to happen. My confirmation bias, you are another data point that progressive liberalism is the realm of closed minded little individuals.

                          3.9% for the US vs. 22% for UK….tell me again how voting away your rights helped. Tell me again how 44% of households legally owning firearms hurt (vs. your sub 1%).

                          My prediction: as your demographics change your overall violent crime rates will continue to rise.

                        • Bluesman1950

                          Compare our murder rates!

                        • GAU-8

                          OK. Now you you are confirming you must be suffering some level of senility.

                        • GAU-8
                        • Bluesman1950

                          Repeating the same irrelevant and dishonest nonsense doesn’t help.

                          Are these ‘alternate facts’?

                          Go on. Demonstrate that Trumpuppet’s inauguration event was the biggest ever in the history of the world!

                        • GAU-8

                          Only if you continue to ignore your own country’s published data.

                          Well, with your demonstrated combination of senility and confirmation bias tendencies anything is possible.

                          Sorry if you think 0.035 per 1,000 homicide rate vs. a 5.5. per 1,000 violent crime rate difference is “irrelevant” or “dishonest”

                          But then again….you (UK local police and government officials) have a history of covering up unpleasant facts … such as “Horrific reality of ‘industrial scale’ child grooming” in Rotherham so it’s not surprising that you don’t really want to admit these little pieces of reality.

                        • Bluesman1950

                          And this has what to do with your horrific murder rate?

                        • GAU-8

                          https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/cadf0e6108c395d8a8fb9de5629ce65bd5a734d5a34ccffd641f4b398beab23f.png

                          or just re-read our entire conversation, seriously this senility is getting tedious. I realize you have fun hiding your own easter eggs and all …but

                        • GAU-8
                        • Bluesman1950

                          No mention then of the changes in recording practice in 1998, which accounted for 114% increase in violence recorded, without any actual increase in the number of incidents!
                          file:///E:/Users/user/Downloads/SN02607%20(1).pdf

                          I suppose you just forgot about that!

                        • GAU-8

                          Of course, but it went up 150% – still an increase even after you account for the police reduction in hiding the truth.

                        • Bluesman1950

                          Then show those statistics, not another made up graph “based on your gov’ts figures”!

                        • Bluesman1950

                          “but it went up 150% ”
                          Your evidence to prove that, beyond a scare graph from a gun nut site?

                        • Bluesman1950

                          “Violent crime covers a wide spectrum of offences. Between the year ending December 1995 and the year ending March 2015 surveys, the number of CSEW violent crime incidents has fallen from 3.8 million to 1.3 million.”

                          “Improvements in crime recording processes by the police are thought to be the main driver of a 23% rise in the number of violence against the person offences recorded in the year ending March 2015 compared with the previous year.”

                          “The number of sexual offences in the year ending March 2015 (88,106) was the highest figure recorded by the police since the introduction of the National Crime Recording Standard in 2002. As well as improvements in recording practices, this is thought to reflect a greater willingness of victims to come forward to report such crimes. Estimates from the CSEW self-completion module show that there has been no significant change in the proportion of victims of sexual assault from the previous year.”

                          “Violence without injury accounted for almost half (48%) of all CSEW violent incidents in the year ending March 2015, while the more serious crimes of assault with minor injury and wounding accounted for 27% and 24% respectively.”

                          “Reflecting the overall downward trend in the volume of incidents measured by the CSEW, victimisation rates have declined over time. When CSEW violent crime was at its peak in 1995, 4.8% of adults aged 16 and over were a victim of violent crime, compared with 1.8% in the year ending March 2015.”

                          https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/crimeandjustice/compendium/focusonviolentcrimeandsexualoffences/yearendingmarch2015/chapter1overviewofviolentcrimeandsexualoffences

                          So the actual facts are that real violence has declined by 58% since 1995, whilst the numbers of police officers have been reduced to 124,000, the same level as 1989!
                          https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/544849/hosb0516-police-workforce.pdf

                        • GAU-8

                          I love waking up and smelling the liberal rationalization, meanwhile in the US violent crime is down the same and US guns owned has doubled. And our violent crime rate is still 5.5 per 1,000 lower.

                        • Bluesman1950

                          Just all the deaths and hospital admissions that mysteriously keep happening in the USA! So much safer!

                        • Bluesman1950

                          “the liberal rationalization”
                          Also known as ‘the facts’.

                        • GAU-8

                          Is the impact of telling the truth is taken into account……Then what happens?

                        • Bluesman1950

                          If ever the FBI figures are accurate, we might find out, but that would be unconstitutional, apparently.

                        • GAU-8

                          Does the Constitution confuse you?

                        • GAU-8

                          And yet we did the same….and 12 million CCW holders to boot….tell me again how much giving your rights away helped. Tell me, how bad did you fudge the numbers when you were on the force?

                        • Bluesman1950

                          Well, it was hard work hiding those thousand of bodies so that it made our murder rate look nearly 5 times lower than yours, but it seems to have worked!

                        • GAU-8

                          0.035 per 1,000. But hey, you did a great job hiding all those adolescent girls getting raped. The government cover up almost worked….can’t wait to see how you spin that…

                        • Bluesman1950

                          Child sexual abuse has been reported up to 80,000 times a year, but the number of unreported instances is far greater, because the children are afraid to tell anyone what has happened, and the legal process of reporting can be difficult.

                          http://www.aacap.org/AACAP/Families_and_Youth/Facts_for_Families/Facts_for_Families_Pages/Child_Sexual_Abuse_09.aspx

                        • GAU-8

                          more rationalization to hide the truth.

                          “Senior repeatedly found warnings went unheeded, evidence was destroyed and, when her team gave information to outside police forces, she was reprimanded and accused of distortion.”

                          But nice try…..it was a cover up.

                          http://www.telegraph.co.uk/books/what-to-read/rotherham-whistleblower-explains-why-sex-abuse-ring-was-covered/

                        • Bluesman1950

                          Surely GunFactsInfo wouldn’t lie about British crime rates would they?
                          Still, strange that the actual graph from the Home Office Bulletin ‘Crime in England and Wales’ 2010/11, on Page 15 completely contradicts that nonsense!

                          https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/116417/hosb1011.pdf

                        • Bluesman1950

                          “In the category of homicide, which also sits within violence against the person, the police recorded 695 offences in the latest year, 125 more than in the previous year (a 22% increase). However, this includes the 96 cases of manslaughter that resulted from the events in Hillsborough in 19892. Excluding those 96 cases of manslaughter, the increase in police recorded homicides is much lower, at 5%.”

                          Please feel free to explain how the deaths of 96 people in a crowd disaster in 1989, recorded as manslaughter in 2016, were the fault of the Firearms Act 1997!

                          “3.9% for the US”?
                          “Preliminary figures indicate that law enforcement agencies throughout the nation showed an overall increase of 5.3 percent in the number of violent crimes brought to their attention for the first 6 months of 2016 when compared with figures reported for the same time in 2015.”
                          https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2016/preliminary-semiannual-uniform-crime-report-januaryjune-2016

                          Of course, since we start from a low base, a small increase shows a large percentage. A few percent on your high base is a huge number.

                        • GAU-8
                        • GAU-8

                          A thug shoots at police…yeah, I have no problem with the police responding in kind.

                        • Bluesman1950

                          Even the unarmed ‘thugs’ shoot at the police? How do they do that?

                        • GAU-8

                          sorry dipstick….Freddie Gray was murdered by the police how again? I am curious how you arrive to that conclusion in direct contradiction to multiple juries. More bias … just like the prosecutor … of course she may face legal action…whereas you just show your ignorance.

                        • Bluesman1950

                          So was he one of the 200+ shot dead while unarmed? Are you sure it wasn’t the Serbian police who killed him?

                        • GAU-8

                          Do try to remember what you post.

                          Is it senility or do you just not bother to look at the data you quote?

                          https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/3caab8e65b6badc365a4e06de3510072bebf8bf15f52e4bc1d7a159e0194876a.jpg

                        • Bluesman1950

                          Do try to remember where I specified Freddie Gray. It was the hundreds of unarmed people shot dead that I referred to.

                        • GAU-8

                          p.s. Freddie was never shot nor even shot at.

                        • Bluesman1950

                          I know, so why are you mentioning him?

                        • GAU-8
                        • Mike Breen

                          And yet when it happens, it all tends to work out. Without routinely armed police and public acceptance that the police can simply kill any threat, they don’t.

                          Your example is another reason why we like things the way they are. To offer your lethal authoritarian police as some sort of an example of how things could be better is no better that suggesting your gun death and murder rate is somehow better.

                        • GAU-8

                          Meanwhile….you just let the Government strip you of rights.

                          I’m sorry if someone who assaults a law officer getting injured offends you…

                          You know how you can always tell a progressive wingnuts…when they have to use the term “gun death” as if “knife death” or some other means of being murdered is more noble and leaves the victim less dead.

                          Meanwhile..the UK violent crimes rate of murder, assault with injury, rape and home invasion is 5.5 per 1,000 greater than the US. Our criminal homicide rate difference? 0.035 per 1,000.

                          Meanwhile, you can offer zero empirical evidence disarming yourselves reduced your violent crime rates.

                          https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/7c6bb14a2eeb31e366f4d51fa952f7c71995a27de463086d31feade858428026.jpg

                        • Mike Breen

                          Just occasionally, I see a spark in you that might differentiate you from jarhead, then you come back and repeat this totally debunked crap about UK violent crime being five times higher AND link it to gun control that cannot have changed a single thing when it comes to violent crime. You KNOW why the acts of 1997 and 1998 cannot have increased violent crime and you KNOW why the UK rate is so high, yet you suggest UK violent crime really is five times higher than the USA and gun control is the cause. That makes you a liar and/or a complete cretin. In either case, talking to somebody who takes months to end up taking a position that was debunked months ago is not worth taking to. Good by slave, and welcome to the jarhead club.

                        • GAU-8

                          I didn’t say 5 times…. 5.5 per 1,000 difference….please read.

                          I didn’t say they “increased” violent crime – but they certainly didn’t decrease it did they? However, there is a correlation. Given you can’t have causation without correlation, it certainly keeps it within the realm of possible hypothesis.

                          There are many alternative hypothesis that explain the increase, however given you and blue refuse to depart from your bias. While blue actually throws out tidbits of confirmation bias as “evidence” you simply resort to piggybacking on his comments before you regress to your typical FATCA butthurt diatribes.

                          But please look at the graph (from your own Government’s data) and provide evidence as you why to the correlation doesn’t exist.

                          …. p.s… certainly the acts could have contributed to criminal activity increase unless you have evidence to the contrary – hypothesis: criminals, knowing the chance of encountering an armed victim, are emboldened.

                          Supporting data: (1) the graph provided; (2) in the UK 57% of burglaries occur while the owners are home – in the US it’s 17%.
                          (3) your violent crime rate (as defined by assault with injury, homicide, rape and home invasion) is 5.5 per 1,000 greater than the US.

                          Come on….actually use data and provide some response….or am I going to hear more whining?

                        • Bluesman1950

                          If you think that ‘assault with injury’ is the same as your aggravated assault then your confusion is understandable.

                          Since, however, the difference has been pointed out to you ad nauseam, you are simply lying. Still, it worked for Trump!

                        • GAU-8

                          Well I am giving you benefit of the doubt…I mean in the US the presence of a weapon whether it used or not to actually injure someone already makes it aggravated assault.

                        • GAU-8

                          Attempted aggravated assault that involves the display of—or threat to use—a gun, knife, or other weapon is included in this crime category because serious personal injury would likely result if the assault were completed.

                          https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/violent-crime/aggravated-assault

                          Although any injury that is more than ‘transient or trifling’ can be classified as actual bodily harm, the appropriate charge will be one of Common Assault where no injury or injuries which are not serious occur.

                          In determining the seriousness of injury, relevant factors may include, for example, the fact that there has been significant medical intervention and/or permanent effects have resulted. But there may be other factors which are also relevant and these will need to be carefully considered when deciding whether or not the injuries are serious.

                          It should be borne in mind that Parliament created the offence of Common Assault specifically to cater for those assault cases in which the injuries caused are not serious.

                          ABH should generally be charged where the injuries and overall circumstances indicate that the offence merits clearly more than six months’ imprisonment and where the prosecution intend to represent that the case is not suitable for summary trial.

                          http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/l_to_o/offences_against_the_person/#common_assault

                          Perhaps you are confused at your own definitions….

                        • Bluesman1950

                          Let’s not worry about the method of murders then. What are your chances of being the victim of homicide in the USA compared with the USA?

                        • GAU-8

                          ” What are your chances of being the victim of homicide in the USA compared with the USA?”

                          What are my specific chances? About 0.000
                          What are the average chances in the USA? About the same. 0.035 per 1,000. Much less if you don’t engage in criminal activity, gangs, drugs or associate with people that do. Even lower if you live in low population density areas.

                        • Bluesman1950

                          so 470% mine then.

                        • Bluesman1950

                          Lol!

                          And there were 10 million people in Washington for Trumpuppet’s inauguration!

                        • GAU-8
                        • jarhead1982

                          Yeah horrible how they are mostly criminals and pedophiles like you eh

                        • jarhead1982

                          ROTFLMFAO, ROTFLMFA failed at 4 function math again we see…

                        • james lucas

                          Could it be that Jack the ripper died?

                        • Bluesman1950

                          Q. How many NRA members does it take to change a lightbulb?
                          A. more guns !

                        • cargosquid

                          NOW you’re getting it.

                        • GAU-8

                          No but how many have been raped, assaulted, stabbed….time for you to ban silverware and penises…I mean that’s your argument right? Take away the tool and crime magically disappears. You should ban drugs too. I hear that works.

                        • Bluesman1950

                          So I take it you have no problem with North Korea acquiring nuclear weapons then. They too are only a tool.

                        • GAU-8

                          Actually I don’t, they are a sovereign nation are they not. MAD works btw. Kim young junk would last about 12 seconds in a nuclear exchange. He knows that, and he knows having and using nukes are two different things. Unlike you I don’t get my panties in a wad over that, or even my neighbors legally owning any type of firearm.

                        • Bluesman1950

                          Glad that you can be certain that all your neighbours are and always will be sane, sober and never prone to violence. How can you tell?

                        • GAU-8

                          Well how are sure they won’t come over with an ax, baseball bat, run you over with the car, or any one of hundreds of means? If you are that much in need of security over freedom sign up for prison.

                          I’ll live on the dangerous side of tumultuous freedom.

                          And if my neighbor (if I had any) freaked out he’d wear two in the chest.

                        • james lucas

                          By the ones I had to shoot and kill in self defense.

                        • GAU-8

                          Explain again how death is different based on method, we are all waiting to hear your medical explanation? Or why your violent crime rate is higher? Or why violent crime is up 24%?

                        • Bluesman1950

                          Who said death was different according to method? It is just far more likely to come prematurely through homicide in the USA, mainly with the benefit of firearms.

                        • GAU-8

                          At a rate of 0.000035 per year. Or in raw UK population terms: 1, 953 people. Meanwhile you will have 67,000 more sexual assaults, 4,790 more robberies, and 245,804 more assaults with injury.

                          And lets add 189,000 more burglaries where the victim is home.

                          Yeah, I can see how the UK stripping its citizens of a basic right made things safer….for criminals.

                        • williamdiamon

                          …by your reasoning then, it obviously DID work for 2,600,000 who died by other measures. Even if we count suicides and accidents it rises to 1.15% of our total death toll. Shocking, isn’t it?

                        • Bluesman1950

                          2,600,000 Americans managed to defend themselves with guns in order to die by another means?

                          Let’s not bother trying to make cars any safer or stop people driving drunk, since they only account for about the same number of deaths as guns.
                          Only 136 people died in US air crashes in 2015, so no need for all that regulation and pilot training is there?

                        • GAU-8

                          So you equate car safety with banning? When will you ban all cars? I guess you will enact prohibition too?

                        • Stan GoneCrazy

                          Actually, more Americans are killed by cars than are killed by guns.

                        • Bluesman1950

                          38,300 by cars, 33,736 by guns in 2015, so it’s pretty close.

                        • Stan GoneCrazy

                          So cars killed more and I was right.
                          Thank you for admitting that you were wrong!

                        • williamdiamon

                          We’re always inventing new ways to make guns safer. Both in their design and engineering, and in the training we give. For instance the NRA has an excellent way to teach children of the danger of weapons. It is called the Eddie Eagle program.
                          A volunteer wears a eagle costume and addresses school class
                          rooms. They stress the 4 things children need to remember when discovering a gun, “Stop, Don’t touch, Leave the area, and Tell an adult”. This program has reached more then 26,000,000 children in all 50 states. It is the premier gun safety program for children and a major reason gun-related accidents comprise less than 1% of death and injury in the home. Perhaps you could volunteer.

                          We do regulate firearms for reasons of public safety. Distance from an occupied structure, age requirements, hunter safety courses and the like are examples. This is different than “restriction”, like banning guns, which people do for reasons of institutionalized slavery.

                          Specifically to the 8124 victims mentioned in your comment, they were murders. Our FBI considers an average of 70% of them to be directly due to gangs fighting over drug turf in our inner cities. This drug war is fueled by an open border policy combined with sanctuary city policies in most of them. The city of Chicago for instance is the American headquarters of the Sinaloa Cartel, a ruthless international criminal enterprise that smuggles human and narcotic cargo across our Southern border.
                          When our new President secures the border and drys up the sanctuary cities our murder rate may drop as low as England’s.

                          But even if it doesn’t I’m still glad to be an American and able to defend against all threats with the proper tools. Besides, if you don’t have guns – what will you do when the British come?

                          But you know all that Blues, don’t you take notes as we explain this stuff?

                        • Jed

                          Nailed it!

                        • williamdiamon

                          Thank you sir, I can’t believe his memory is this short. I better help him build up the muscles in his brain.

                        • Bluesman1950

                          The education programme sounds good. Only 40 American children under 12 shot so far this year. Brilliant!

                          If Trump can make the entire USA as safe as New Hampshire, the US murder rate will be only slightly worse than that of England. You will only need to reduce your murders nationally by 8,000 Good luck with that!

                          You think the British are coming again? I think that risk is fairly low. Besides, being British and living in England, the British are already here as far as I am concerned.

                        • Mike Breen

                          There’s a youtube video of somebody doing some sort of gun lesson in a school, and it doesn’t go well. I’m on my phone now but I’ll find it for you later.☺

                        • Bluesman1950

                          Oooops!

                        • Mike Breen

                          If guns are banned to enslave people, how come you are not free to leave the country and I am? How come you have owners and I don’t?

                        • jarhead1982

                          And we have the right to protect our life as we see fit when the govt, and police were ruled not legally liable to do so, no to do so….unlike in lesser puxxyland formerly the UK where victims defending themselves are prosecuted and locked up

                        • GAU-8

                          Please expand on how your 779,027 violent acts against people isn’t justification in your mind to follow your 1689 Bill of Rights?

                          Adjusted for population that’s only about 3.9 times more than the US.

                          I’m sure a percentage of those 88,000 sexual assault victims would have liked the opportunity to defend themselves effectively.

                        • Bluesman1950

                          Yes, all that pushing and shouting, which is just as bad as aggravated assault!

                          How many people have been murdered with firearms so far this year in the peaceful USA?

                        • GAU-8

                          How many Muslim gang rape gangs has youre country covered up?

                        • GAU-8

                          130,000 knife crimes. Or as you put it “a knife was present”. Which in the US makes it aggravated assault. Whether or not there was an injury is irrelevant. Adjusting for population shall I add that 700,000 plus equivalent assaults to your growing numbers?

                        • Bluesman1950

                          No, just count your corpses and compare them to ours!

                        • GAU-8

                          Ok 2,112. Now lets add in your 67,000 more rapes. 245,000 more assaults, and 189,000 more burglaries where someone is home.

                        • Bluesman1950

                          2,112 murder victims? When was that? Sure you have the right country. Your attempt to avoid the issue by quoting rapes, burglaries and assaults is just symptomatic of your confusion and dishonesty. I haven’t been diverted into querying your other ‘statistics’ although they are usually as unreliable as your figure quoted above.

                          Comparing the corpses:

                          Over the 5 years 2011 -2015 homicides recorded in England and Wales (pop 56 million)
                          2741.
                          Over the 5 years 2011 – 2015 homicides recorded in USA (pop 320 million)
                          70,854

                          The USA, with a population 5.7 times that of England and Wales, recorded over 25 times as many homicides.

                          The USA homicide rate per capita is over 4.5 times that of England and Wales. But your guns make you safer than us! Really?

                        • GAU-8

                          I’m pretty dang safe. But don’t worry as long as you ignore the thousands of rapes, assaults, robberies and burglaries where the owners are present your “safe.”

                        • Bluesman1950

                          Still can’t deal with the corpses? Keep trying to change the subject!

                        • GAU-8

                          I didn’t, the number is right there. So glad to here you place zero value on rape and assault and home invasion victims.

                        • Bluesman1950

                          2,112. That’s less than 2 months murders in the USA .

                          So glad that rape, assault and home invasion don’t happen in the USA.

                        • GAU-8

                          Just at a rate 3-4 times less than you…resulting in UK having hundreds of thousands of more violent crimes

                        • Bluesman1950

                          Provided you count only 4 crimes as violent, whilst we count around 50!

                        • GAU-8

                          I really love your outhouse lawyering.

                          The problem is I used your own data.

                          violence with injury, rape, robbery, murder

                          I could add in violence without injury…in the US a threat to kill could be considered aggravated assault, as could any crime against persons where a weapon was present…but I’ll be generous.

                          The tally? UK about 950 per 100,000 vs. US 380.

                        • Bluesman1950

                          Murders?

                        • GAU-8

                          Why so many violent crimes in the UK?

                        • Bluesman1950

                          As you know there are not, simply that we count many more things such as stalking, possession of a knife, harassment, causing alarm etc, none of which cause injury, as ‘violent’ whilstyou do not.

                          But if we are as violent as you allege, why are we 4.7 times less likely than you to be murdered and 2.6 times less likely to need hospital treatment after an assault

                        • snoopybaron

                          “How The UK Covers Up Murder Stats”

                          https://www.americas1stfreedom.org/articles/2015/7/17/how-the-uk-covers-up-murder-stats/

                          http://www.gunfacts.info/gun-control-myths/miscellaneous-gun-control-information/#BCS

                          Fact: Comparing crime rates between America and Britain is
                          fundamentally flawed. In America, a gun crime is recorded as a gun
                          crime. In Britain, a crime is only recorded when there is a final
                          disposition (a conviction). All unsolved gun crimes in Britain are not
                          reported as gun crimes, grossly undercounting the amount of gun crime
                          there. 23 To
                          make matters worse, British law enforcement has been exposed for
                          falsifying criminal reports to create falsely lower crime figures, in
                          part to preserve tourism. 24

                          Fact: Since gun banning has escalated in the UK, the rate of crime – especially violent crime – has risen.

                          Fact: Ironically, firearm use in crimes in the UK has doubled in the decade since handguns were banned. 17

                          Fact: Britain has the highest rate of violent crime in Europe,
                          more so than the United States or even South Africa. They also have the
                          second highest overall crime rate in the European Union. In 2008,
                          Britain had a violent crime rate nearly five times higher than the
                          United States (2034 vs. 446 per 100,000 population). 18

                          Fact: 67% of British residents surveyed believed that “As a
                          result of gun and knife crime [rising], the area I live in is not as
                          safe as it was five years ago.” 19

                          Fact: U.K. street robberies soared 28% in 2001. Violent crime was up 11%, murders up 4%, and rapes were up 14%. 20

                          Fact: This trend continued in the U.K in 2004 with a 10%
                          increase in street crime, 8% increase in muggings, and a 22% increase in
                          robberies.

                          Fact: In 1919, before it had any gun control, the U.K. had a
                          homicide rate that was 8% of the U.S. rate. By 1986, and after enacting
                          significant gun control, the rate was 9% – practically unchanged. 21

                          Fact: Handgun homicides in England and Wales reached an
                          all-time high in 2000, years after a virtual ban on private handgun
                          ownership. More than 3,000 crimes involving handguns were recorded in
                          1999-2000, including 42 homicides, 310 cases of attempted murder, 2,561
                          robberies and 204 burglaries. 26

                          Fact: Handguns were used in 3,685 British offenses in 2000 compared with 2,648 in 1997, an increase of 40%. 27 It is interesting to note:

                          Of the 20 areas with the lowest number of legal firearms, 10 had an above average level of “gun crime.”

                          Of the 20 areas with the highest levels of legal guns, only 2 had armed crime levels above the average.

                          Fact: Between 1997 and 1999, there were 429 murders in London,
                          the highest two-year figure for more than 10 years – nearly two-thirds
                          of those involved firearms – in a country that has virtually banned
                          private firearm ownership. 28

                          Fact: Over the last century, the British crime rate was
                          largely unchanged. In the late nineteenth century, the per capita
                          homicide rate in Britain was between 1.0 and 1.5 per 100,000. 29 In the late twentieth century, after a near ban on gun ownership, the homicide rate is around 1.4. 30 This implies that the homicide rate did not vary with either the level of gun control or gun availability.

                          Fact: The U.K. has strict gun control and a rising homicide
                          rate of 1.4 per 100,000. Switzerland has the highest per capita firearm
                          ownership rate on the planet (all males age 20 to 42 are required to
                          keep rifles or pistols at home) and has a homicide rate of 1.2 per
                          100,000. To date, there has never been a schoolyard massacre in
                          Switzerland. 31

                          Fact: “… the scale of gun crime in the capital [London] has
                          forced senior officers to set up a specialist unit to deal with …
                          shootings.” 32

                        • Bluesman1950

                          Oh dear Snoopy you went to all that trouble typing and based it all on nonsense!

                          “In Britain, a crime is only recorded when there is a final disposition (a conviction). All unsolved gun crimes in Britain are not reported as gun crimes, grossly undercounting the amount of gun crime ”

                          This silly myth peddled by the NRA is completely false nonsense, ‘fake news’ as your president is so fond of trumpeting. Having been a UK police officer for 30 years, I know exactly how crimes are recorded. They are recorded when they come to light. They are unsolved if the offender is not detected ad solved if he or she is. It is not necessary to wait for a conviction.

                          https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/counting-rules-for-recorded-crime

                          2.2 An incident will be recorded as a crime (notifiable offence) for ‘victim related offences’ if, on the balance
                          of probability:
                          (a) the circumstances of the victims report amount to a crime defined by law (the police will
                          determine this, based on their knowledge of the law and counting rules); and
                          (b) there is no credible evidence to the contrary immediately available.

                          All increases or decreases in crimes are relative to the previous years.
                          in 2014-15 England aand Wales pop. 57 million had 517 homicides, that’s actual killings, not convictions, 21 of which were by shooting.
                          in 2014 the USA pop 320 million, had 11,961 homicides, 8124 of them by shooting.

                          If the USA had the same rates as the UK you would have had 2895 homicides and 118 shooting homicides! Still, what’s an extra 8,006 people shot dead eh?

                          All of your alleged ‘FACTs’, especially those from fake news sites you seem to believe cannot alter the fact that the UK is far safer than the USA.

                          Ask the Great Pumpkin for a new battle plan!

                        • snoopybaron

                          You didn’t rebut anything. Just spouted more of your anti-American Anti-gun rhetoric and lies. Sorry that the facts embarrassed you, but you should learn to stop spouting lies and ignorance. Then maybe you won’t make such a fool out of yourself.

                        • Bluesman1950

                          You just keep cutting and pasting your “FACTS” and I will keep knocking them down!

                        • snoopybaron

                          Just keep “cutting and pasting” lies, and convincing yourself that you’re not an idiot!

                        • Bluesman1950

                          Here’s an idea, move to England, join the police and serve for 30 years in various locations, rural and urban, including London, as I did, then come back with some actual knowledge to support your views instead of hysterical NRA propaganda.

                        • Bluesman1950

                          Lies, what like “In Britain, a crime is only recorded when there is a final disposition (a conviction). ”

                          You are lying well enough for both of us!

                        • GAU-8

                          I see numb knuts in blue has found you. This guy is a classical progressive sheeple.

                        • cargosquid

                          Oh yes…..he and I have tangled before. His dishonesty and statism are vary familiar.

                        • jarhead1982

                          Horrible how it has been repeatedly explained that if one is a criminal thats where that comes from, but then you infer all law abiding gun owners are criminals, hence your cheese has definitely slipped off your cracker

                        • Mike Breen

                          It’s not a case of making things up, or lying for that matter. Sources differ, that’s all. Heck, people even make mistakes.The big picture is what matters when it comes to the USA and what happens when you flood a country with guns and tell people they can defend themselves with them, and we know what that is.

                        • jarhead1982

                          Just horrible how law abiding citizens are exercising their right to defend themselves and violent crime by pedophiles and thuggstas like you continue to drop

                        • jarhead1982

                          But 68 times more likely to a victim of a hot burgalary, or 23 times more likely to be raped by a pervert like mukey pedo puffer….man thats inspiring, only to pedophiles is that inspiring or muslims

                        • Mike Breen

                          The rest of my delusions? You mean the effects of FATCA and what it means in reality to real people on the ground? My apparent delusions will diminish in direct proportion to the amount of time you spend studying the great many sources of information that I have pointed you to.
                          Many times you and your gun loving friends mention the constitution and how those rights are inalienable. Try leaving and you will find that those rights are toast. Of course, that would not matter one jot if the USA left you alone, but it won’t.
                          You are US property.

                        • jarhead1982

                          The IRS only controls tax matters, so by law it cant be anything but a tax….why are you too stupid to realize that cretin????

                        • jarhead1982

                          Missing a few nuts and bolts in your belfry we see, scareymy, you should be locked away permanently for public safety

                        • jarhead1982

                          Only criminals and pedophiles like you want to leave, you were saying pedo?

                        • jarhead1982

                          Yep, just another tax controlled by the IRS…..

                        • Mike Breen

                          FATCA is not a tax, cretin. FATCA is the law your owners forced on the world so you cannot hide from the punishment you will receive for daring to leave the plantation.

                        • jarhead1982

                          Yes, it is a penalty tax cretin, just like obamacare, as the IRS controls both, how again cant eh IRS control anything unless it is tax related cretin…..DOOOOH

                        • Mike Breen

                          FATCA is not a tax, you stupid man.

                        • jarhead1982

                          The IRS only controls tax matters, so by law it cant be anything but a tax….why are you too stupid to realize that cretin?

                        • jarhead1982

                          The IRS only controls tax matters, so by law it cant be anything but a tax….why are you too stupid to realize that cretin??

                        • jarhead1982

                          Sure thing tax slave

                        • Mike Breen

                          “”I’ve put no words in your mouth.””

                          “By your own admission then, gun control has nothing to do with murder”.

                          Huh?

                        • cargosquid

                          Your own admission. “We akso have a murder rate five times lower than you, and rarely with a gun.”
                          That rate has not changed since 1900. Thus, gun control has nothing to do with it.

                          Please keep up.

                        • Mike Breen

                          I wonder, if we had not controlled guns, how much closer to your FIVE TIMES HIGHER murder rate would we be?

                        • cargosquid

                          Not at all.
                          Gun control does not affect crime.

                        • Mike Breen

                          Gun control effects gun crime.

                        • cargosquid

                          Nope. But your belief in that falsehood is unshakable, I know.

                          But, then, it is moot.
                          Even if it did…. there is no valid utilitarian argument for infringing upon civil liberties and human rights, such as the right to keep and bear arms.

                        • Mike Breen

                          Would Jamie Gilt have been shot in the back had she not been allowed to carry a gun in her car?

                        • jarhead1982

                          Still lying eh pedo

                        • jarhead1982

                          Proven lie as always

                        • jarhead1982

                          Funny how we look at the actual govt. data, and we see mukey pedo puffer is being his normal pathological lying perverted self yet again….claiming 12% of all killings by guns are committed by police….what a daft cretin he is

                          Based on the pedo puffers repeated exagerations and intentional dishonesty and lies, nothing the cretin ever says or claims is believeable

                          https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2015/crime-in-the-u.s.-2015/tables/expanded_homicide_data_table_14_justifiable_homicide_by_weapon_law_enforcement_2011-2015.xls

                          https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2015/crime-in-the-u.s.-2015/tables/table-1

                          POLICE
YR/TOTAL/BYGUN
/total murders by illegal gun use/% of total

                          1980 /459 / 456
/ 15736/ 2.89%
                          1985 /321/ 319
/ 12963 / 2.46%
                          1990 /385/ 382
/ 16010/ 2.39%
                          1995 /389/ 386
/14760 / 2.61%
                          2000 /309/ 308
/ 10645/ 2.89%
                          2005 /347/ 344/ 11433/ 3.0%
                          2010 /397/ 396 / 9892/ 4.0%
                          2015 /442/ 441 / 11223/ 3.93%

                • legaleagle45

                  If we were to eliminate all of the firearm homicides we would still be two times more likely to be murdered than you. Do you suppose that is because firearms give off evil vibes which compel people to murder others using different methods?

                  • Mike Breen

                    Firearms make killing easy. Is that too simple for you?

                  • Bluesman1950

                    No, Americans are more homicidal than Britons. Arming them with guns just makes them much more effective killers.

                • Jerzei’s Idol

                  Haven’t you embarrassed yourself enough?

                  • Mike Breen

                    I’ve not embarrassed myself at all. I am embarrassed for all the Americans who believe the UK banned guns in 1997 causing an increase in everything from murder to global warming. The 1997 act was a complete non event and if anything, it simply prove the old saying about lies and statistics.

                    • Jerzei’s Idol

                      You’ve been shown time and again to be a fraud by your cherry-picking and total disregard for perspective & common sense.

                      • Mike Breen

                        Common sense? You mean the sane common sense that has Americans claiming that flooding a country with an easy means of killing has no effect on the number of killings?

                        • Jerzei’s Idol

                          ” that flooding a country with an easy means of killing has no effect on the number of killings?”

                          Easy means of killing? What can be easier than bare hands or a blunt instrument?
                          Who are all of these Americans you speak of?
                          Again, perspective and common sense are not in your arsenal.

                        • Mike Breen

                          What killing can be done easier than bare hands or a blunt instrument? Seriously?! Erm, a gun?

                        • Jerzei’s Idol

                          I don’t need to get a gun to kill. I can do it with my bare hands. I don’t need a background check to buy a baseball bat.
                          Seriously.

                        • Mike Breen

                          Rather more difficult to kill with bare hands, no?

                        • Jerzei’s Idol

                          Not at all. I can snap a neck faster than it takes to draw a pistol.

                        • Mike Breen

                          Sure you can. Can’t everybody? It’s a wonder that you even bother flooding the country with guns, or that you bother shooting so many people. In fact, if you controlled guns, people would be beating each other to death with a spoon if they had to, eh? Honestly, Americans are nuts. Owned, brainwashed, enslaved, nuts.

                        • Jerzei’s Idol

                          Children and elderly are less likely.
                          Guns are controlled. Just not to the satisfaction of boot lickers like yourself.

                        • jarhead1982

                          Yeah, horrible how in order for the government to controll us in the fashion you claim, we would have to be disarmed….hmmm…oh wait, YOURE THE UK PEDOPHILE DEMANDING WE LAW ABIDING CITIZENS BE DISARMED….

                          You really need to make up your mind cretin, you want us to be free of taxation, yet you intend to disarm us to make us vulnerable to the exact thing you are wailing about….

                          Only paid shills and tax slavers act like you…

                        • jarhead1982

                          Thats what criminals and pedophiles like you count on to make your crimes safer for you

                        • Bluesman1950

                          So tough!

                        • Jerzei’s Idol

                          If you say so, weakling.

                        • Bluesman1950

                          Oooooh scary!

                        • Bluesman1950

                          Easy means of killing? What can be easier than bare hands or a blunt instrument?

                          I challenge you to a duel.. You can have bare hands or a club, I will have an AK47. You can bring a few friends along if you like, I’ll take you all on!

                        • Jerzei’s Idol

                          No, I’ll take whatever means I want into a duel. You don’t create the rules.
                          You can deny the numbers of people that are killed by methods other than guns (even though you could care less about those people), but those of us that do care will always be there with context.
                          While you’re rolling in your orgiastic glee in the blood , we’re there to point fingers at you for all to see.

                        • Bluesman1950

                          So bare hands and blunt instruments aren’t as effective as guns? What a surprise!

                          In the USA over 60% of homicides are committed with guns.

                          I’m not the one spilling the blood. It’s the people with guns that do most of that.

                        • GAU-8

                          Actually it is criminals. But I know that is irrelevant to you.

                        • Bluesman1950

                          Like the army veteran who shot all those people at Fort Lauderdale airport? What was his criminal record.

                          Or hers? http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/mother-9-year-old-daugther-found-dead-fort-lauderdale-home-article-1.2942740

                        • GAU-8

                          Back to cherry picking? That’s all you have left. I thought so. Tell me do I get to drag in the UK soldier beheaded in the street while the onlookers were powerless to intervene?

                        • GAU-8

                          Or do you mean, as the news continues to grow, Ashik Hammad, the Muslim with pro-jihad / ISIS leanings?

                        • Bluesman1950

                          So not a US army veteran? Not a lawful gun owner? Would the 2nd Amendment have prevented him from getting a gun? Is there a ‘no Muslims’ clause in there?

                          No wonder you get so many massacres if you are so careless about who gets guns.

                        • james lucas

                          “When guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns.” As some cops are unfortunately outlaws. And when found guilty of harassing innocent citizens after one shoots his 16 year old in an attempted armed robbery, lost his badge. Perhaps it is best you are retired.

                        • GAU-8

                          Yeah that 0.000035 difference versus the hundreds of thousands more violent crimes in the UK. Tell me, does making your citizens defenseless keep them from being raped, robbed and assaulted at significantly higher rates? That’s right, it doesn’t does it.

                        • Jerzei’s Idol

                          “So bare hands and blunt instruments aren’t as effective as guns? What a surprise!”

                          It depends on the intention of the person intent on their use.
                          Guns draw attention to themselves.

                          “In the USA over 60% of homicides are committed with guns.”

                          About the same percent of deaths by suicide.

                          “I’m not the one spilling the blood. It’s the people with guns that do most of that.”

                          Most of that? Do you have a cite? I mean one that specifically measures blood loss by modality/incident?

                        • Bluesman1950

                          “It depends on the intention of the person intent on their use.”
                          I think that a gun has a greater potential for killing and wounding more people over greater distances than bare hands or blunt instruments. That’s why they tend to be the weapon of choice for armies.

                          Over 60% of US homicides are committed with a firearm. The individual volume of blood loss is not that important provided it is sufficient to cause death!

                        • Jerzei’s Idol

                          I would hope they are. Why should someone being threatened be forced to be in close proximity with that threat if they can stop it from a distance?
                          And about 60% of the homicides are suicides. What ever method they can get their hands on is employed.

                        • Bluesman1950

                          Equally, why should someone who wants to harm innocent people risk getting up close when they can kill and wound so many more at greater distances in shorter time than with manual weapons?

                          You seem to be working with the fantasy that only the innocent will possess firearms and that they will use them for reasonable self-defence. The fact is that the evil and mad will also have them and will use them, as the USA demonstrates on a daily basis. 793 Americans have been shot dead, around 40 per day, and 3006 wounded by gunfire so far this year. Already 3 police officers have been shot dead this year.

                          In the UK, with neither the good nor the bad having widespread access to firearms, the problem is largely non-existent.

                          That homicide figure excludes suicides. Of 15,696 murders in 2015, information collected regarding types of weapons used in violent crime showed that firearms were used in 71.5 percent of the nation’s murders,
                          https://ucr . fbi . gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2015/crime-in-the-u.s.-2015/tables/expanded_homicide_data_table_7_murder_types_of_weapons_used_percent_distribution_by_region_2015.xls

                  • OHJonesy

                    I used to wonder that too, but it’s getting apparent that Mike enjoys being proven wrong time after time . . .

                    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/c24a53697bf23a0a9164fb615e9f9142bca4cdbd3b963b83390188b25c8e9a38.jpg

        • jarhead1982

          So yet again the proven pathological lying pedo admits that gun control of only the law abiding had nothing to do with a reduction in violence or the low murder rate to begin with, just a physical prescence of more cops, so noted

        • cargosquid

          Murder rate of UK in 1900 was about 1/100K. Still is.
          Difference? Very little gun control in 1900.

          You were saying?

          MikeB…we know that you don’t actually know a thing about guns other than you want to ban them and you have failed to refute a single thing every said to you.

          Keep whining.

      • sammy

        as someone frothe uk who has since moved out, please heed my warningto KEEP YOUR GUNS! Banning guns is simpy to make the population weaker and more defenseless. in outset it might seem fine, but over time you see that the country becomes more and more socialist (welfare state of an authoritarian gvnt and a weak dependent populace – which pretty much describes the uk and france perfectly). The uk is a SHITHOLE; an urban maze, and the clintons and obamas of the world want to turn the USA like the UK

        • Bluesman1950

          Where have you moved to Sammy. The USA? Good luck! Perhaps their excellent education system can help you with your grammar, syntax and punctuation

        • Mike Breen

          If the UK is a shithole, an urban maze, why do I keep crossing continents to take hiking holidays there? Why do the Lonely Planet describe the UK as the most beautiful island? The UK offers some of the most beautiful countryside in the entire WORLD! Doubt me?
          Walk…….
          The Pennine way.
          The coast to coast.
          The South West Coastal path.
          The Kintyre way.
          The Yorkshire Dales.
          Pennines.
          Lake district.
          Swaledale.
          North Yorkshire Moors.
          I could go on all day, but to describe the UK as an urban shithole just marks you out as one very ignorant man.

      • qb

        The best article I’ve ever read about firearms, crime, gun control, societal catalysts. Excellent research, clear, concise and unbiased presentation. Most likely will be criticized by almost everyone with predisposed opinions, which is one more reason to pay attention to Mr.King.

      • Dan Spector

        In a large number of cases, spree killers obtained the firearms right before they did it. We want to make it harder for those psychopaths.

        • Scooter

          Impossible. Even if you took guns from every person in the Country, you can still get one. How you might ask? You can make a pistol for abour 30$ worth of Metal. Or a Slamfire Shotgun for 20$ worth of Metal. Could make a semiauto-fullauto rifle for about 100$ worth of metal and a day of your time… (Get rid of bullets) literally impossible to do. But let’s say you are able to. Then what? You can make Gun Powder out of your own piss. Melt brass and make bullets……. End of the day, criminals will always get ahold of a Gun. Limiting the ability of a Law Abiding Citizen will not help in any way shape or form.

          • Dan Spector

            Kinda stretching there, scoot. Here’s a ton of steel and a gallon of gas.. English killers use knives, and are less lethal. Suicide and little kids are major killers too.

      • CHRIS D

        Western Europe has strict gun control and the murder rte varies from 1 to 10 per million, the US is at an all time low at about 40 per million, over 60% of those are carried out with a gun. The UK for example have never had the homicide rates at the levels of the US and they have never had a gun culture, even before the stricter laws , like the US. The way this article uses the stats to try to prove it’s point is stupid and very transparent.

        • The non-black/Hispanic rate in the US is comparable to that of the UK, illustrating it’s not gun availability that drives homicide rates.

          • CHRIS D

            That is completely incorrect

            • Sorry, but while it may be news to you, it’s been widely known and understood for decades. Take a gander: According to FBI stats, 50% of murders in America are black-on-black, with blacks 13% of the population. And according to the Violence Policy Center, the murder rate for Hispanics is twice that of non-black/Hispanic, with Hispanics 17% of the population.

              The math is simple. With a recent (2012) overall homicide rate of 4.7 per 100K that works out to the following rates: Black 18; Hispanic 4.5; Non-black/Hispanic 2.2; Homicide rate in the UK? 1.2, and some say that number should be adjusted upward due to differences in reporting.

              Clearly, as far as our outsized homicide rate is concerned, we do not have a gun problem but a socioeconomic one.

              • Bluesman1950

                Nonsense. Of the 2015 homicides, of the 10, 539 where the race of the offender was known 44% were white. The homicide rate for white Americans is twice that of Britons of all races.

                Some Americans do try to pretend that the UK murder rate is higher than recorded, but that is just a myth. The USA has a murder rate around 5 times that of the UK

                • Not sure where your confusion lies or what you think is nonsense, but let me know and I’ll try to help. I’m really curious where you’re going astray.

                  • Bluesman1950

                    “The non-black/Hispanic rate in the US is comparable to that of the UK”

                    In the UK (England and Wales), (pop. 56 million in 2014) 534 homicides were recorded. http://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/crimeandjustice/bulletins/crimeinenglandandwales/2015-07-16#violent-crime

                    in 2014 the FBI recorded 13897 homicides, the race/ethnicity of the offender being known in 9,765 of them.https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2014/crime-in-the-u.s.-2014/tables/expanded-homicide-data/expanded_homicide_data_table_3_murder_offenders_by_age_sex_and_race_2014.xls

                    Of those 9,765, 3782 or 39% were white (i.e. not lack, latino or hispanic).

                    Allowing for the 5.8 greater population in the United states, that would equate to 652 murders in the UK, 22% higher than our homicide rate by all races

                    However,since the ethnicity of 4132 is unknown, try applying the rate of 39% to the overall figure of 13897 homicides and you get 5419. Allowing again for the population difference that would equate to 934 murders in the UK, i.e. 75% higher.

                    Of course, we can only guess at the ethnicity of the 4132 whose identity was unknown, but there is no indication that it is more or less likely to be weighted towards black, white or latino.

                    To express, without any supporting facts, that the US white murder rate is the same as that in the UK is nonsense.

                    Clear enough?

                    • As far as “supporting facts”, the data I posted is well known and easily accessible for you to verify, so perhaps you can tell me which part you don’t accept and I can point you to a source if needed:

                      According to FBI stats, 50% of murders in America are black-on-black, with blacks 13% of the population. And according to the Violence Policy Center, the murder rate for Hispanics is twice that of non-black/Hispanic, with Hispanics 17% of the population.

                      The math is simple. With a recent (2012) overall homicide rate of 4.7 per 100K that works out to the following rates: Black 18; Hispanic 4.5; Non-black/Hispanic 2.2; Homicide rate in the UK? 1.2

                      What I take away from this is that, clearly, as far as our outsized homicide rate is concerned, we do not have a gun problem but a socioeconomic one. And, further, our non-black/Hispanic homicide rate is in line with that of the UK, as factors of 2 or 3 difference in homicide rates is the norm among Western nations.

                      • Bluesman1950

                        “.. the data I posted is well known and easily accessible for you to verify”
                        So feel free to actually post the links to it. Your point, you prove it.

                        “…our non-black/Hispanic homicide rate is in line with that of the UK, as factors of 2 or 3 difference in homicide rates is the norm among Western nations.”

                        No, your homicide rate is 5 time ours overall, around 120% to 170% homicides by white Americans.

                        Do you include black and Hispanic people as Americans, or don’t they count?

                        • Okay, I guess you really are unaware of the elephant in the room. To take your last comments first,

                          “No, your homicide rate is 5 time ours overall, around 120% to 170% homicides by white Americans. Do you include black and Hispanic people as Americans, or don’t they count?” Not sure if you’re trying to be funny or if you’re having trouble parsing the sentence: “our non-black/Hispanic homicide rate is in line with that of the UK”. And that of course is the whole point.

                          As for references:

                          (1) “According to FBI stats, 50% of murders in America are black-on-black”

                          See Table 7, p12, and text on the following page: “93% of black victims were killed by blacks”.
                          http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/htus8008.pdf

                          (2) “with blacks 13% of the population. And according to the Violence Policy Center, the murder rate for Hispanics is twice that of non-black/Hispanic, with Hispanics 17% of the population.”

                          “African Americans are the largest racial minority, amounting to 13.2% of the population. Hispanic and Latino Americans amount to 17% of the population”
                          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_ethnicity_in_the_United_States

                          “Murder Rate for Hispanics Is Twice the Murder Rate for Whites”
                          http://www.huffingtonpost.com/josh-sugarmann/murder-rate-for-hispanics_b_5309973.html

                          And once again: “The math is simple. With a recent (2012) overall homicide rate of 4.7 per 100K that works out to the following rates: Black 18; Hispanic 4.5; Non-black/Hispanic 2.2; Homicide rate in the UK? 1.2” Let me know if you have trouble with the math.

                          So again clearly, as far as our outsized homicide rate is concerned, we do not have a gun problem but a socioeconomic one. Whatever effect gun availability might have, it is dwarfed by socioeconomic factors.

                        • Bluesman1950

                          “our non-black/Hispanic homicide rate is in line with that of the UK”.
                          “Non-black/Hispanic 2.2; Homicide rate in the UK? 1.2″ Let me know if you have trouble with the math.”

                          I do have trouble with 2.2 being “in line with” 1.2.
                          It is actually 83% more.

                        • ‘I do have trouble with 2.2 being “in line with” 1.2.
                          It is actually 83% more.’

                          You shouldn’t, and here’s why.
                          (1) A factor of 2 or 3 difference in homicide rates is the norm among Western nations. Go ahead and check it for yourself (I’m leaving this as an exercise for the reader).
                          (2) The black homicide rate is 720% higher than the non-black/Hispanic rate, or 8 times higher. THAT is what is significant.

                          You may ignore the elephant in the room if you want to, but do not try to sweep the elephant under the rug.

                          “exacerbated by the widespread availability of guns to all your divided races” And it would indeed be racist to suggest that the “divided races” cannot handle the responsibility of owning arms just as well as everyone else.

                          Whatever effect the availability of guns may have, it is dwarfed by socioeconomic factors. Those are the real causes, and that is what we need to address if we really want to change this picture. Gun control is not going to change that any more than it brought down Al Capone.

                        • Bluesman1950

                          It works in the UK. It’s too late for America.

                        • Well, if we could make the lives of black and Hispanic folks as good as everyone else’s we have a much lower homicide rate even with all our guns.

                          Besides, it’s not all about guns, as people don’t need guns to commit murder. Even here, about 1/3 of homicides are by other means.

                          And there’s no denying the benefits of the right of the people to keep and bear arms.

                        • Bluesman1950

                          A gun homicide rate 68 times the UK? An undeniable benefit obviously!

                          Even without all your firearms homicides, your rate is still twice that of the UK.

                        • The non-gun homicide rate would be 4.7/3=1.6, which is 1.6/1.2=1.3, not 2.

                          As you should realize by now our homicide rate is not a gun problem but a socioeconomic one. It is not the right of the people to keep and bear arms that causes it. You’re confusing the means for the cause.

                          And it’s 4.7/1.2=3.9, not 68! I appreciate the frank discussion here but get a grip.

                        • Bluesman1950

                          You are confusing your overall homicide rate, which is about 5 times ours, with your firearms homicide rate.

                          Last year 8124 people were murdered with firearms in the USA, population about 319 million.

                          In the same year 21 people were murdered with firearms in England and Wales, population about 56 million.

                          319/56 = 5.7. If Americans were murdered with firearms at the same rate as us you would have had 21 x 5.7 = 120 firearms homicides.
                          In fact you had 8124.

                          8124/120 = 67.7 times our firearms homicide rate.

                          If none of those firearms murders had been committed, even by another means, your homicide rate, by stabbing, strangling, bodily force etc. would still have been twice ours. Get a grip.

                        • “You are confusing your overall homicide rate, which is about 5 times ours, with your firearms homicide rate.” The confusion is you don’t realize homicide is about murdered people, not how they’re murdered! You’re making a common error, once again, you’re treating the gun like a causal agent. I don’t know if you can see the irony, but that huge number, 68, only serves to underscore the point. The overall homicide rate of non-black/Hispanics is within a factor of 2 of that of the UK, and that is what is relevant.

                          QED

                        • Bluesman1950

                          “And again, “more than twice ours” is incorrect: The non-gun homicide rate would be 4.7/3=1.6, which is 1.6/1.2=1.3, not 2.”
                          Sorry, but you are wrong!

                          USA, population about 319 million. UK (England and Wales,) population about 56 million. 319/56 = 5.7

                          US non-gun homicides 7068

                          UK non-gun homicides 494.

                          494 x 5.7 = 2,816 (allowing for the population differences)

                          7068 / 2816 = 2.5.

                          Even discounting all firearms homicides, the USA is 250% more homicidal than the UK.

                        • With all due respect you have trouble with numbers. As 1/3 of homicides in America are non-gun and an overall rate of 4.7 that gives 4.7/3=1.3 for the non-gun homicide rate.

                          But this is really quibbling over factors of 2 or 3 which is the norm among Western nations. The point is that here in the States as far as our outsized homicide rate is concerned, we do not have a gun problem but a demographics and socioeconomic one. Whatever effect gun availability might have, it is dwarfed by socioeconomic factors. The non-black/Hispanic rate is in line with that of the UK, 2.2 vs. 1.2.

                          Factors of 2 and 8 *within* a country (Hispanic and black) *is* significant, and reveals it is not gun availability that is causing it, and it’s not about the “number of guns”, that’s a common misconception. “Perhaps the fact of many of them still being used as slave labour in the largest prison system in the world and disproportionately likely to be killed, in huge numbers, by your police, has an impact on their perceptions of society.” That is really baloney and hyperbole and misdirection there! Half of all homicides are black-on-black, with blacks 13% of the population. That’s hardly a matter of perception, killings by police, or “slave labor”! Christ. Again, you’re blinding yourself to the elephant in the room.

                        • Bluesman1950

                          Look at the actual numbers rather than inaccurate proportions.

                          US non-gun homicides 7068

                          UK non-gun homicides 494.

                          494 x 5.7 = 2,816 (allowing for the population differences)

                          7068 / 2816 = 2.5.

                          Your police kill around 1000 or more people per year. There are no accurate figures recorded! the entire UK police kill fewer than 3 people per year on average. That would amount to less than 18 in the USA.

                          You imprison the highest proportion of your population in the world and use them to work for little or no money. That survival of slavery is specifically allowed by the 13th Amendment.

                          The fact that black and Hispanic people may be disproportionately offenders and victims does not negate the fact that most of them are Americans. It is an American problem.

                          Your problems are with a country that is unequal, divided AND heavily armed.

                        • Sorry, but you’re getting lost in the numbers here, and I’ve already showed you the math. And again, quibbling over ratios and trying to ignore the elephant in the room: black-on-black homicide. You can run but you can’t hide.

                          “Your police kill around 1000 or more people per year.” Correct – and 60% of them involve blacks and Hispanics, which make up only 30% of the population. The overwhelming proportion are justified. Again, you”re ignoring the demographics issue.

                          “You imprison the highest proportion of your population in the world and use them to work for little or no money.” Again, you’re ignoring the elephant in the room: outsized black and Hispanic crime rates.

                          “The fact that black and Hispanic people may be disproportionately offenders and victims does not negate the fact that most of them are Americans. It is an American problem.” You’re resorting to a tautology. That’s desperation.

                          “Your problems are with a country that is unequal, divided AND heavily armed.” Again, you’re ignoring the fact that the non-black/Hispanic homicide rate is far lower and in line with that of the UK. Is it your opinion that the white people should give up their guns because the black folks can’t stop shooting each other?

                          You can run but you can’t hide.