New NSA Documents Shine More Light Into Black Box Of Executive Order 12333

Surveillance conducted under EO 12333 is implemented almost entirely by the executive branch, without review by Congress or the courts.
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    The NSA headquarters in Fort Meade, Maryland. (Photo via Wikimedia Commons)

    The NSA headquarters in Fort Meade, Maryland. (Photo via Wikimedia Commons)

    What is arguably the most powerful of the U.S. government’s surveillance authorities is also the most secretive, and it operates with the least amount of oversight.

    Today, we’re releasing a new set of documents concerning Executive Order 12333 that we — alongside the Media Freedom and Information Access Clinic at Yale Law School — obtained in an ongoing Freedom of Information Act lawsuit. EO 12333 hasn’t received much public attention to date, but the government’s prior disclosures in our suit have shown that the executive order in fact governs most of the NSA’s surveillance. In the NSA’s own words, EO 12333 is “the primary source of the NSA’s foreign intelligence-gathering authority.”

    Surveillance conducted under EO 12333 is implemented almost entirely by the executive branch, without review by Congress or the courts. EO 12333 lacks even the plainly inadequate legislative and judicial checks on the two more well-known surveillance authorities — Section 215 of the Patriot Act and the FISA Amendments Act.



    Some of the most significant conclusions to be drawn from the new documents:

    “It is not possible” for the NSA to adequately protect the privacy of innocent Americans swept up in its dragnet.

    Even when the NSA is “targeting” foreigners abroad, the agency sweeps up vast quantities of innocent Americans’ communications. This is true when the agency is conducting surveillance under FISA, and it’s just as true when the agency is conducting surveillance under EO 12333.

    But we don’t yet have a full understanding of EO 12333’s implications for Americans’ privacy. That’s in part because of the secrecy surrounding EO 12333, and in part because, as one NSA memo acknowledges, the agency itself often doesn’t know whether it’s handling communications to or from Americans:

    Excerpt #1

    The government frequently argues that its sweeping, “collect it all” approach to surveillance is lawful because it follows certain procedures when searching and sharing the information it gathers. These “minimization procedures” vary by agency and by surveillance program, but in general, they require special treatment of Americans’ communications to mitigate the intrusion on privacy rights.

    But if the NSA can’t — or won’t — ensure that it is correctly identifying Americans’ communications when it vacuums them up, how can the public trust that the NSA is properly safeguarding Americans’ private information? Furthermore, if the NSA doesn’t know what it’s collecting, how can it effectively assess its compliance with its own rules?

     

    NSA analysts may be laughing at your sex tape.

    One of the other new documents, another internal NSA memo, considers whether “sharing of voice cuts among signals intelligence (SIGINT) analysts for purposes other than official ones constitutes a violation of any laws, policies, or procedures.” Unsurprisingly, the deputy general counsel concludes that it’s not permitted:

    Excerpt #2

    Excerpt #3

    The memo appears to be a response to allegations made in 2008 by a former NSA military intercept operator, David Murfee Faulk, that he and others routinely circulated “good phone sex” recordings, or “cuts,” around the office. Faulk and another operator also alleged that the NSA had eavesdropped on hundreds of U.S. citizens overseas as they called home — capturing not only phone sex, but more mundane pillow talk as well.

    While phone sex may be a slowly dying art, the risk of NSA abuse has only grown as new media takes its place. Today, EO 12333 surveillance can put your nude selfies and your sex tapes into the NSA’s hands, where analysts may once again be tempted to pass them around in violation of agency rules. As Edward Snowden recently said, the auditing of the NSA’s systems is weak, and the ability to ogle nude photos is seen as one of the “fringe benefits of surveillance positions.

     

    The NSA agrees that your phone number is identifying (except when it doesn’t).

    Much of the public debate on the NSA’s collection of phone records, or “metadata,” has focused on the Section 215 program. But reports suggest that the NSA collects an even greater quantity of call records under EO 12333 — up to five billion records per day. Though this collection takes place overseas, it still captures Americans’ domestic metadata and other sensitive information, like location data, that the NSA says it does not collect under Section 215. That raises concerns that the NSA is using EO 12333 to maneuver around restrictions it faces under other statutory authorities.

    The government has argued that phone records are not private because they don’t include names, just numbers. This is an absurd argument. As the ACLU has explained, phone numbers are every bit as identifying as our social security numbers — no two of us have the same one — and it’s a trivial matter for the government to attach a name to a number. One of the new documents shows that, back in 2007, the NSA’s own lawyers recognized that Congress had considered this question — and had agreed with the ACLU:

    Excerpt #4

    This memo goes on to argue that Americans’ metadata may be shared widely across intelligence agencies because it is not constitutionally protected — an argument that’s wrong on several grounds. Metadata can reveal personal information that is just assensitive and private as the content of communications. In addition, as the memo itself acknowledges, the handling of Americans’ metadata is subject to certain statutory requirements. But it’s not yet clear how the NSA interpreted those protections.

    We’re hoping that our FOIA litigation will result in the release of more information — not only about the scope of collection under EO 12333, but also about how the NSA and other agencies are handling and sharing the vast amounts of data they acquire.

    This article was published by the ACLU.
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    Stories published in our Hot Topics section are chosen based on the interest of our readers. They are republished from a number of sources, and are not produced by MintPress News. The views expressed in these articles are the author’s own and do not necessarily reflect Mint Press News editorial policy.

     

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    • Anonymous

      NSA is another Israeli secret operation. US government has no control. It’s all Zionist Israel behind the dark curtains.

    • casimcea

      Which part of “THIS IS UNCONSTITUTIONAL” is difficult to grasp?

    • J. Harp

      The NSA is a Gestapo/KGB type organization that should absolutely be restrained from ALL of its unconstitutional activities! This organization is completely un-American and should never be allowed to exist in this country. Their contention that they are protecting us from violence and danger aimed at American citizens is so much BOVINE SCATOLOGY! THEY ARE GATHERING INFORMATION ABOUT U.S. CITIZENS IN ORDER TO FURTHER BOLSTER THE GOVERNMENT’S CONTROL OVER THE U.S. POPULATION!!! They are an agency whose basic purpose is to subvert the constitutional rights of the citizens of the United States of America and they have no place in our society!!! This agency should be disbanded and any information found in their possession that violates the rights of any citizen should be used as the basis of criminal actions to be brought against those responsible for gathering that information!!! WHO IN THIS COUNTRY DOES THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT THINK THEY ARE KIDDING WHEN THEY SAY THAT THE NSA IS THERE TO PROTECT THE CITIZENS??!!!?

    • MarMu

      Brazil is cutting leash of vicious made in USA beast.
      Hopefully rest of the world will follow and Utah
      facility will be converted to museum of insanity

    • Brightegg24

      A society without morals, ethics, or respect for freedom usually degenerates into a corrupt police state or lawlessness. Divide and conquer is one of the corrupt government tactics. Remember FBI COINTELPRO and CIA MERRIMAC. (The FBI have even controlled the media for domestic issues (see Cointelpro) while the CIA controlled the media for foreign issues (see Operation Mockingbird) in order to influence and control American public opinion to the benefit of the corrupt governments. It should be noted illegal programs were done against innocent americans like CIA’s MK-Ultra program during when both the reuplicans and democrats where in power in influencial areas. It is largely a miltary industrial complex issue. What is our weapon against their evil?
      The only way to have a free and respectful society is to encourage morals, ethics, respect for others and practice them in our own lives and families. The more people do this the weaker the corrupt government will become because it will make it harder for the corrupt government to control people with their bias and lies and it will be harder for them to create their sheeple. Their has to be a cultural change.
      Also voting may also help a little, but it might be best to not vote for any main party line but vote for alternative third parties that would like to start to reduce the military industrial complex.

    • Brett Robles

      America has turned into a putrid stain upon the Earth. It need to be wiped away for the good of humanity.

    • Tiggg

      Does it really matter who is elected, they don’t run the government, we all know that.

    • Auggydog

      I would argue that Obama was re-elected in 2012 due to NSA surveillance. How else would this criminal be re-elected?

    • Jorge Vasquez

      What good does any of this do for the people?

    • Livideo

      They’re so secretive that the writes are still showing a picture of the building from 1977! Gremlins, VW Bettles and Panel vans, love it.

    • sloth

      To begin with, please remember most govt workers are slime. If they had a brain and any amount of intelligence or ability for original thought they would not be govt workers to begin with. Now you put those people in a place of authority and you are just asking for trouble. Case in point look at the TSA workers at borders and airports let alone trusting them with private citizens “private” information. I rest my case!

    • MrLiberty

      Originally signed by Reagan and amended by Bush. Remind me again of how republicans are SO MUCH better than their criminal counterparts in the Democratic party? Becoming a Libertarian certainly wasn’t a difficult choice for me to make.

    • turbogadfly

      The real reason Snowden ran.

      About 2 years prior to his leaving for Hong Kong, Snowden contacted proper
      authorities about the overreaching data collection the NSA was
      conducting on U.S. citizens. He wished to be a whistleblower.

      That is when the FBI started to harass him.

      I am also a former NSA contractor that has had to contend with FBI
      harassment. I have seen others having to contend with stupid and
      corrupt FBI agents.

      Department of Justice employees poisoned my dog, tried to burn down my house by
      loosening a gas fitting in my garage, use sleep deprivation and other
      tortures, fabricate evidence, steal from me, tampering with my car,
      use gang members to harass me, and death threats. All of this and
      more have been happening to me. Several attempts on my life as well.

      He was justified in leaving.

    • rob c

      I am ashamed of what the people that are suppose to loves this country has done to it. The internet is being destroyed over a voyeurism nation under god called the United States. Brazil is already cutting us off from their internet, what other are next.

    • Kristen Maharia

      Contrary to what
      Obama, Rep Peter King (R NY) and Sen. Dianne Feinstein(D CA) are telling the
      American public. Metadata is a weapon of Government Power. Metadata tells the
      government who you associate with, when you associate, where you associate
      and for how long. The government should not have this information about
      you, because individuals in the government can use this data in the future to
      harass, suppress, intimidate and control it’s population. Warrantless
      surveillance goes against core fundamental American values. Our forefather’s
      gave us the 4th Amendment the rights to stop these type of government
      intrusions, let’s not give them away for false sense of
      “security”.

      Incompetence in Obama’s administration (we
      saw a lot of this last year and disappointed I vote for him) and luck of
      oversight of the NSA has allowed young people in the NSA to do whatever
      they want just because they technically can even if it’s wrong.

    • RevoloutionStorm

      What have we learned as Americans over the last 16 years?
      1) Our Rights & Freedoms are at risk under a Democrat or Republican administration.
      2) Neither political Party is concern with maintaining Constitutional Law.
      3) Our government has turned to Fear, rather than Consensus in making policy.
      4) Reducing out National debt is not a priority.
      Sounds like it’s time to tear our government down and rebuild another.

      • sloth

        so true, They are ALL to blame and they keep this façade going so we will fight among ourselves and each blame the other. Divided we have fallen!

    • Dumb Leroy

      Get rid of the NSA and Homeland Security. They don’t make you any safer. Are they really effective, how many millions of dollars are spent to capture one alleged terrorist ? Or does the NSA eavesdrop on old fat women talking about menstrual cramps all day, thats some intelligence gathering.

      • Kristen Maharia

        Yes where were this security agencies when the Boston bombing occurred. The created a police state in Boston and it was only after the caffue lifted did a citizen report the a person hiding in his boat.

    • Cy Chyc

      1- EO 1223
      2- The Military Commissions Act
      3- The Patriot Act
      4- National Defense Authorization Act.

      -Between these four “Acts” the U.S. government can supersede any right provided to you by the Federal Constitution or any State Constitution.
      Our government has legalized the taking of American’s rights…

      • wyrosjr

        Odd that we chastised China for being what we are slowly becoming ourselves.

    • Christopher Citty

      The most alarming fact about the NSA spying is that there is nothing, realistically, that we can do about it, even if we wanted to. We would have to vote every member of Congress out, replace everyone in SCOTUS, and vote in our own President and Vice President. We’d need fresh faces all over Washington. Because, make no mistake, they are not going to stop spying on us, on their own volition.

      • Kristen Maharia

        Vote the bums out that are sacrificing our liberties, don’t crawl into a hole.

        • RevoloutionStorm

          The problem with that is that their replacement will only become part of the System over time.
          Need Term Limits! Our elected representation should not be a career, it should be a privilege. The longer a politicians stays in office the more corrupt they become.

      • wyrosjr

        The problems is that even if we did that, it still would not stop. The nectar of power is so sweet that, once inhaled, goes to the brain and permanently corrupts the politicians.

    • Joe Strange

      We can trust our government…except when we can’t…

    • Jimbob

      You ever see the fcc tax on your phone bill? Maybe that’s how they are funded.

    • sillyfugger

      2.8 Consistency With Other Laws. Nothing in this Order shall be
      construed to authorize any activity in violation of the Constitution or
      statutes of the United States.

      did all the judges and NSA and everyone miss this section of 12333 ?

      the problem is they are collecting more then meta data do a quick search
      icreach , crisscross/proton , SOD , parallel construction .their also
      using this for domestic crimes. that is what was authorized by EO12333
      for an article of reference i submit .

      WASHINGTON Mon Aug 5, 2013 3:25pm EDT (Reuters) – A secretive U.S. Drug
      Enforcement Administration unit is funneling information from
      intelligence intercepts, wiretaps, informants and a massive database of
      telephone records to authorities across the nation to help them launch
      criminal investigations of Americans.

      Although these cases rarely involve national security issues, documents
      reviewed by Reuters show that law enforcement agents have been directed
      to conceal how such investigations truly begin – not only from defense
      lawyers but also sometimes from prosecutors and judges.

      The undated documents show that federal agents are trained to “recreate”
      the investigative trail to effectively cover up where the information
      originated, a practice that some experts say violates a defendant’s
      Constitutional right to a fair trial. If defendants don’t know how an
      investigation began, they cannot know to ask to review potential sources
      of exculpatory evidence – information that could reveal entrapment,
      mistakes or biased witnesses.

      “I have never heard of anything like this at all,” said Nancy Gertner, a
      Harvard Law School professor who served as a federal judge from 1994 to
      2011. Gertner and other legal experts said the program sounds more
      troubling than recent disclosures that the National Security Agency has
      been collecting domestic phone records. The NSA effort is geared toward
      stopping terrorists; the DEA program targets common criminals, primarily
      drug dealers.

      “It is one thing to create special rules for national security,” Gertner
      said. “Ordinary crime is entirely different. It sounds like they are
      phonying up investigations.”

      THE SPECIAL OPERATIONS DIVISION

      The unit of the DEA that distributes the information is called the
      Special Operations Division, or SOD. Two dozen partner agencies comprise
      the unit, including the FBI, CIA, NSA, Internal Revenue Service and the
      Department of Homeland Security. It was created in 1994 to combat Latin
      American drug cartels and has grown from several dozen employees to
      several hundred.

      Today, much of the SOD’s work is classified, and officials asked that
      its precise location in Virginia not be revealed. The documents reviewed
      by Reuters are marked “Law Enforcement Sensitive,” a government
      categorization that is meant to keep them confidential.

      “Remember that the utilization of SOD cannot be revealed or discussed in
      any investigative function,” a document presented to agents reads. The
      document specifically directs agents to omit the SOD’s involvement from
      investigative reports, affidavits, discussions with prosecutors and
      courtroom testimony. Agents are instructed to then use “normal
      investigative techniques to recreate the information provided by SOD.”

      A spokesman with the Department of Justice, which oversees the DEA, declined to comment.

      But two senior DEA officials defended the program, and said trying to
      “recreate” an investigative trail is not only legal but a technique that
      is used almost daily.

      A former federal agent in the northeastern United States who received
      such tips from SOD described the process. “You’d be told only, ‘Be at a
      certain truck stop at a certain time and look for a certain vehicle.’
      And so we’d alert the state police to find an excuse to stop that
      vehicle, and then have a drug dog search it,” the agent said.

      “PARALLEL CONSTRUCTION”

      After an arrest was made, agents then pretended that their investigation
      began with the traffic stop, not with the SOD tip, the former agent
      said. The training document reviewed by Reuters refers to this process
      as “parallel construction.”

      The two senior DEA officials, who spoke on behalf of the agency but only
      on condition of anonymity, said the process is kept secret to protect
      sources and investigative methods. “Parallel construction is a law
      enforcement technique we use every day,” one official said. “It’s
      decades old, a bedrock concept.”

      A dozen current or former federal agents interviewed by Reuters
      confirmed they had used parallel construction during their careers. Most
      defended the practice; some said they understood why those outside law
      enforcement might be concerned.

      “It’s just like laundering money – you work it backwards to make it
      clean,” said Finn Selander, a DEA agent from 1991 to 2008 and now a
      member of a group called Law Enforcement Against Prohibition, which
      advocates legalizing and regulating narcotics.

      Some defense lawyers and former prosecutors said that using “parallel
      construction” may be legal to establish probable cause for an arrest.
      But they said employing the practice as a means of disguising how an
      investigation began may violate pretrial discovery rules by burying
      evidence that could prove useful to criminal defendants.

      A QUESTION OF CONSTITUTIONALITY

      “That’s outrageous,” said Tampa attorney James Felman, a vice chairman
      of the criminal justice section of the American Bar Association. “It
      strikes me as indefensible.”

      Lawrence Lustberg, a New Jersey defense lawyer, said any systematic
      government effort to conceal the circumstances under which cases begin
      “would not only be alarming but pretty blatantly unconstitutional.”

      Lustberg and others said the government’s use of the SOD program skirts
      established court procedures by which judges privately examine sensitive
      information, such as an informant’s identity or classified evidence, to
      determine whether the information is relevant to the defense.

      “You can’t game the system,” said former federal prosecutor Henry E.
      Hockeimer Jr. “You can’t create this subterfuge. These are drug crimes,
      not national security cases. If you don’t draw the line here, where do
      you draw it?”

      Some lawyers say there can be legitimate reasons for not revealing
      sources. Robert Spelke, a former prosecutor who spent seven years as a
      senior DEA lawyer, said some sources are classified. But he also said
      there are few reasons why unclassified evidence should be concealed at
      trial.

      “It’s a balancing act, and they’ve doing it this way for years,” Spelke
      said. “Do I think it’s a good way to do it? No, because now that I’m a
      defense lawyer, I see how difficult it is to challenge.”

      CONCEALING A TIP

      One current federal prosecutor learned how agents were using SOD tips
      after a drug agent misled him, the prosecutor told Reuters. In a Florida
      drug case he was handling, the prosecutor said, a DEA agent told him
      the investigation of a U.S. citizen began with a tip from an informant.
      When the prosecutor pressed for more information, he said, a DEA
      supervisor intervened and revealed that the tip had actually come
      through the SOD and from an NSA intercept.

      “I was pissed,” the prosecutor said. “Lying about where the information
      came from is a bad start if you’re trying to comply with the law because
      it can lead to all kinds of problems with discovery and candor to the
      court.” The prosecutor never filed charges in the case because he lost
      confidence in the investigation, he said.

      A senior DEA official said he was not aware of the case but said the
      agent should not have misled the prosecutor. How often such misdirection
      occurs is unknown, even to the government; the DEA official said the
      agency does not track what happens with tips after the SOD sends them to
      agents in the field.

      The SOD’s role providing information to agents isn’t itself a secret. It
      is briefly mentioned by the DEA in budget documents, albeit without any
      reference to how that information is used or represented when cases go
      to court.

      The DEA has long publicly touted the SOD’s role in multi-jurisdictional
      and international investigations, connecting agents in separate cities
      who may be unwittingly investigating the same target and making sure
      undercover agents don’t accidentally try to arrest each other.

      SOD’S BIG SUCCESSES

      The unit also played a major role in a 2008 DEA sting in Thailand
      against Russian arms dealer Viktor Bout; he was sentenced in 2011 to 25
      years in prison on charges of conspiring to sell weapons to the
      Colombian rebel group FARC. The SOD also recently coordinated Project
      Synergy, a crackdown against manufacturers, wholesalers and retailers of
      synthetic designer drugs that spanned 35 states and resulted in 227
      arrests.

      Since its inception, the SOD’s mandate has expanded to include
      narco-terrorism, organized crime and gangs. A DEA spokesman declined to
      comment on the unit’s annual budget. A recent LinkedIn posting on the
      personal page of a senior SOD official estimated it to be $125 million.

      Today, the SOD offers at least three services to federal, state and
      local law enforcement agents: coordinating international investigations
      such as the Bout case; distributing tips from overseas NSA intercepts,
      informants, foreign law enforcement partners and domestic wiretaps; and
      circulating tips from a massive database known as DICE.

      The DICE database contains about 1 billion records, the senior DEA
      officials said. The majority of the records consist of phone log and
      Internet data gathered legally by the DEA through subpoenas, arrests and
      search warrants nationwide. Records are kept for about a year and then
      purged, the DEA officials said.

      About 10,000 federal, state and local law enforcement agents have access
      to the DICE database, records show. They can query it to try to link
      otherwise disparate clues. Recently, one of the DEA officials said, DICE
      linked a man who tried to smuggle $100,000 over the U.S. southwest
      border to a major drug case on the East Coast.

      “We use it to connect the dots,” the official said.

      “AN AMAZING TOOL”

      Wiretap tips forwarded by the SOD usually come from foreign governments,
      U.S. intelligence agencies or court-authorized domestic phone
      recordings. Because warrant-less eavesdropping on Americans is illegal,
      tips from intelligence agencies are generally not forwarded to the SOD
      until a caller’s citizenship can be verified, according to one senior
      law enforcement official and one former U.S. military intelligence
      analyst.

      “They do a pretty good job of screening, but it can be a struggle to
      know for sure whether the person on a wiretap is American,” the senior
      law enforcement official said.

      Tips from domestic wiretaps typically occur when agents use information
      gleaned from a court-ordered wiretap in one case to start a second
      investigation.

      As a practical matter, law enforcement agents said they usually don’t
      worry that SOD’s involvement will be exposed in court. That’s because
      most drug-trafficking defendants plead guilty before trial and therefore
      never request to see the evidence against them. If cases did go to
      trial, current and former agents said, charges were sometimes dropped to
      avoid the risk of exposing SOD involvement.

      Current and former federal agents said SOD tips aren’t always helpful –
      one estimated their accuracy at 60 percent. But current and former
      agents said tips have enabled them to catch drug smugglers who might
      have gotten away.

      “It was an amazing tool,” said one recently retired federal agent. “Our big fear was that it wouldn’t stay secret.”

      DEA officials said that the SOD process has been reviewed internally.
      They declined to provide Reuters with a copy of their most recent
      review.

      The National Security Agency is secretly providing data to nearly two
      dozen U.S. government agencies with a “Google-like” search engine built
      to share more than 850 billion records about phone calls, emails,
      cellphone locations, and internet chats, according to classified
      documents obtained by The Intercept.

      The documents provide the first definitive evidence that the NSA has for
      years made massive amounts of surveillance data directly accessible to
      domestic law enforcement agencies. Planning documents for ICREACH, as
      the search engine is called, cite the Federal Bureau of Investigation
      and the Drug Enforcement Administration as key participants.

      ICREACH contains information on the private communications of foreigners
      and, it appears, millions of records on American citizens who have not
      been accused of any wrongdoing. Details about its existence are
      contained in the archive of materials provided to The Intercept by NSA
      whistleblower Edward Snowden.

      Earlier revelations sourced to the Snowden documents have exposed a
      multitude of NSA programs for collecting large volumes of
      communications. The NSA has acknowledged that it shares some of its
      collected data with domestic agencies like the FBI, but details about
      the method and scope of its sharing have remained shrouded in secrecy.

      now go and read EO12333 including section 2.8 …huge travesty of
      treason , that our government would game the system . we the people can
      no longer trust our courts our politicians nor the president …… for
      all have forsaken the oath many of us have taken …

    • Leonardo Juanito

      Reagan signing this order and Bush’s executive orders obstructed 90% of Americans Constitutional Rights. This must be what Germany witnessed under Hitler.

    • trhrthfth

      this kind of thing makes me want to surrender my US passport and leave this ever growing surveillance state

      • Sawyer Brown

        You won’t be disappointed if you do.

      • nickmeister

        trhrthfth, as intriguing as that sounds (and I agree with you), becoming a “foreigner” puts you even more SQUARELY in the sights of the NSA’s surveillance systems, as the U.S. has crafted it’s own legal authority to give the NSA the right to spy on those overseas with impunity. At least as an American, you have SOME (legal) protection from your information being captured and used by the NSA against you, oddly.

      • Kristen Maharia

        Today is the day to vote those bums out that are sacrificing our liberties.

    • Tom Paine

      Our Founders would be ashamed of what has happened to America. From NSA, to the war on drugs, bailouts of corrupt companies, unjustified wars started by a president who pretends to be a king, gun grabbing, and other mendacious actives by a government claiming to be following the US Constitution.

      • Luke Schneider

        Yep, that earthquake in Virgina a couple of years ago was really Washington, Jefferson, or Madison turning over in their graves. You want to hurt them where they live, abandon the dollar, send your assets overseas converted into other more stable currencies or gold. This government will collapse by 2021.

        • MissCleo’sStalker

          Jot that down everyone! 2021 this guy is actually Miss Cleo in disguise.

      • Edward Hailstone

        Our Founding Fathers would not be ashamed, they would be violent…….and re-establish the Constitution they killed and died for.

      • Anonymous

        Obama is just another Zionist Israeli lobby puppet, AIPAC and the false Jews are in control. Look into it.

    • Jimbob

      The question is, how many judges and politicians get blackmailed into supporting the police state. Could you imagine the dirt they have on elected officials and judges?

      • disqus_l6Q2eVdEHV

        Another question is, how much are politicians and our jackA** of a president putting into their own pockets?

      • fishfry001

        Shades of the days of Herbert Hoover…

    • MarlboroStan

      Funny, not one mention who who actually signed this EO. He actually signed it in secret.

      • VetTeacher

        Ronald Z. Amazing Raygun signed it. What do I win?

        • Andrew

          The Obama administration recently released that information.

    • Deborah9

      I am starting to wonder how much the President (any President) has real control over the NSA.

      • Jeffery Hargrove

        Everyone has a skeleton in their closet if they are a politician. Many of them are mundane things that only really matter if you run for public office. Like an affair, a sexual fetish, an expressed opinion or joke that is racist, doing drugs.

        The information of society when collected in bulk ensures that those running for office in 20 years will easily be compromised by intelligence agencies within the usa.

        We have already seen an un-precedented amount of Generals/admirals forced to retire or fired in the last 6 years. To put into perspective, more generals have been fired or forced out of service in the last 6 years then the last 60.

        • Kristen Maharia

          Very true information is power. Do we want the certain notorious people in government with that kind of power?

        • joatmon

          while I agree that most have skeletons in their closets, I believe that each of our politicians have the whole darn graveyard in there.

    • rmm200

      We have two years to prepare. In 2016 elect a President who will actually work for the good of the American people for a change. If they won’t rescind EO 12333 – don’t elect them. It is absolutely pointless to expect any action from the current Administration.

      • HowardFinesucky

        It’s kind of pointless to expect any administration to give up Executive power. The better question is why has not Congress done anything about it. Congress controls the money and the law.

        • disqus_l6Q2eVdEHV

          Even more pointless to vote nowadays. Like they care who we actually elect as a president. They already know who they’re putting in office in 2016, they just want to provide the illusion that we have a choice.

      • Trajan Saldana

        Wow. I must be missing the sarcastic tone of your post. I hope I am, anyhow.

        • rmm200

          Trajan you may be fine with EO 12333, secret laws, and secret courts. I am not.
          Enjoy your Election Day. It has been bought and paid for by the Supreme Court “Citizens United” decision.
          Sarcasm never works on public forums – so I don’t use it.

      • casimcea

        All this “legislation” pass with the support of BOTH parties. What would it take to grasp the fact that you are asking for redress from the same bird of pray. Quit looking just at the left or right wing.

        • rmm200

          Excuse me? Congress does not get to vote on Executive Orders or pass laws to counter them. This is all the president, and Reagan was the original author of EO 12333. Subsequent Presidents just “expanded” on it. I do not blame either Party – I blame the people elected to that office. In general, any candidate that makes it through the primary process of either party is not fit to be President.

          • casimcea

            Stand corrected.Difference is in degree, not in substance. Still wonder how does it change the fundamentals as it shifts the emphasis from what was done to who did it.

      • seymour butts

        if barack obozo hasn’t suspended democratic elections by then.